I am aware that once Taiwan was part of Japan but I don't find that irritating or embarassing. What's irritating is the notion that people somehow think that all asians are the same, i.e. korean, japanese, chinese, taiwanese, etc. are essentially like people from different "states" of Asia.
well, i wouldn't be too angry about that. it is more the lack of knowledge in their part instead of any deliberate insult. and lack of knowledge is not a fault. think about it in a different way, are you able to tell apart people from all African countries? i cannot. if someone from say African country A come up to me, i wouldn't know the difference between them and someone from African country B.
sorry, guess once again I left something out in my post. The ignorance isn't a problem, it's the "I don't care" attitude I guess. whenever I would enlighten my former school peers with the finer differences of each asian countries and their own cultures, the response I received would usually be "oh well, same thing really." So it's more of a combination between ignorance and choosing to remain ignorant that bothers me. Anyway, enough ranting about that.
Great topic. I was born in Canada, my parents are from Taiwan. When people ask me, "Where are you from?" I respond "Canada." When they inevitably ask me, "No, I mean where are you from originally?" I say, "I'm originally from Canada, I was born in Canada." When they inevitably get irritated and ask me, "Well, where are your parents from?" I say, "Taiwan," and they ask me why I don't say I'm Taiwanese. I hate this line of questioning by the way. My feeling is that I am neither chinese nor western. I have adapted elements of both. I don't really feel like I fit in with the western culture, nor do I feel that I fit in with asian culture (I can't stand chinese rap music, or karaoke!). I love japanese animation and asian food, but prefer western movies and tv with some exceptions (Jackie chan and Jet Li!). I speak fluent Mandarin with little or no accent, but limited vocabulary. I can't read or write more than 30 words. I visited asia for 2 months in 97, when I came back I saw all the white people and felt like a foreigner. Sometimes I feel that both asians and westerners see me as a foreigner, and treat me like one too. I knew a Nigerian man who did his PhD in china, spoke better chinese than me, and had a chinese girlfriend. He asked me what race I thought I was and was offended when I told him I was racially chinese. He couldn't understand how anybody who had never been to China could think they were chinese. He told me he was more chinese than me. I also don't feel at home with most other CBC's or ABC's. I feel they are too westernized for me (hilarious, I know!). Actually, I feel most comfortable with first gen asian immigrants who have been in the west for 5-10 years. I guess I am very confused. I exist somewhere in the middle. Does that make me Hawaiian? lol
lol how does he have the nerve to say you are not chinese?? btw, this is becoming asian avenue or something
I feel the same way. It is my experience that almost all xBC's have no problem with me being chinese, but that chinese people from China almost all uniformly consider me to be not chinese. I presume he picked up this attitude during his stay in China.
To Coupii, in some people's eyes you just can never win. thats y i kinda think that one of my benchmarks for evaluating chinese (if possible) is whether you follow the chinese traditions, even though there's a bit of modernisation to that as well.
Sorry, posting a little late again but I suppose as the famous saying goes, "better late than never (I hope)"... Actually wrt the XBCs... I must admit tt when I first got the States, I was terribly unimpressed by their attitude. Of course, I know better that there are exceptions to every rule and maybe it's just my poor luck for meeting such s***ty ppl but most of them left me with the feeling tt they simply cldn't care less abt their culture, race, heritage, whatever. I mean, if you can't speak Chinese (in Mandarin or any other forms), fine; but you dun have to behave as though you were ashamed of your own roots. Honestly, I have (hopefully) never despised anybody in my entire life before until I met these ppl who know nothing about being Chinese and don't seem to care. It's one thing not to know why we eat bak zhang (rou4 zhong4), mooncakes or tang1 yuan2 on the respective festivals, but another to be so nonchalent about it - as if this lack of knowledge made you seem superior to us poor FOBs. Sometimes when I ask some ABCs if they can speak Chinese, they just go "NO" in that and-why-the-hell-should-I-care manner, which pisses the s*** out of me. Another thing that thoroughly riles me is that a lot of them are so obsessed with other people's cultures, when they know nothing about their own. At Northwestern, there are SO MANY Chinese in the Korean-American Students' Association, even my Korean friends sometimes ask me in this semi-annoyed, semi-puzzled manner what the heck they are doing there. And a lot of these ABCs try their best to act substantially Korean, from hanging out mostly with Koreans to taking Korean language and taekwondo lessons and even dressing like the ABKs. Let me clarify that I am not against the idea of immersing yourself in someone else's culture in the hope of wanting to learn more abt it. But a huge no. of these numbskulls know nuts about their own customs and traditions, cannot speak Mandarin and despise China and Chinese people as if they were still stuck in the Cultural Revolution. It was as though they couldn't give a damn about their own identities and were trying TOO HARD to superimpose some other identity on themselves. I was so pissed to see people like that, I think for the first half-year I was at NU, I called home like 3 times every week to curse and swear at these people (and I'm not kidding). My first Chinese NY away from home was kind of hard because it suddenly dawned on me that not only was I stuck in a place tt doesn't officially celebrate what I've grown so used to celebrating, but that even the people who should care about it don't. Recall that I spent the entire first day crying and cursing (I curse a lot when I cry, yes) and saying that I wanted to go home. Days 2 and 3 were better - I found every Chinese and Korean FOB I knew and wished them Happy Lunar New Yr. This yr, I'm planning to get my apartment cleaned on time and buy 30 Mandarin oranges (2 for each day). For the uninitiated, eating Mandarin oranges on CNY is part of Singaporean (and I think, Malaysian) Chinese custom. To end another very long post (my apologies), I must add that at least from what I've seen, the Korean parents do a better job of raising their kids in that most ABKs can speak some Korean (with varying degrees of fluency) and know more about their customs, festivities etc. that ABC kids do. That is one thing about Koreans that I respect tremendously and I wish more Chinese parents will be like that as well. Remember saying in the post abt having kids that I wldn't know what the proper way to raise children is. But one thing I do know: my kids (if by any fatal chance that I do have them) MUST grow up learning how to speak Mandarin. And celebrate CNY.
Adel, totally agree.my friends from school are all immersed in different cultures, but they are better off than what you are depicting for us, cuz they do know varying degrees of chinese, even though it might be a little harsh to the ears but its just that they read too much ANIME! for god's sake maybe i'm being a bit radical here, but i believe that Anime is the social evil of the 21st century for asian boys between 14 - 35. feel free to disagree. but some of the ppl i know are so into it its sad.. i mean, go play badminton or something!
HAHA... i supposively have the best form for gripping pencils and chopsticks... but hell... my words are lik... not words! ^^" I guess u hav ur point on the language tho. However, if you were to live in Richmond here, it'd be a different story As for Mah-Jong, the one you play is cantonese(hong kong) version Taiwanese version consists of 16 tiles and the rules are different. "How would I kno?" No questions plz haha
Actually, that's only partially right, there's been many adaptions from the Japanese language for instance... lik motorcyle "O-DOU-BAI" for those of you who know it ^^ it's the same as Japanese
Can't see how one can blame Chinese in US and Canada for losing their original identity. They left Asia years ago from Vietnam etc. to a place that openly welcomed them and provided them a safe haven. We from Nanyang, we kive in what LKY described as a sea of Malays, and must always seek solodarity in numbers in a hostile environment.
Dunno about that. I've studied French at school for over 10 years, Cantonese for 3 years, and Mandarin for 2 years as well. I don't consider myself more French than Chinese, that's for sure! I'm think being Chinese in the traditional sense means being both ethnically chinese and culturally chinese. If you have at least 50% chinese blood and act like a FOB, you are definetly Chinese on my books!
True, but there is STILL no need for them to behave as though they were superior to Chinese who haven't lost their "original identity" or to try so hard to ingratitate themselves with some other race. Besides, I know of many Thai, Vietnamese and Korean Americans - all of whom can speak their mother tongue and know more or less of their own cultures. So what is it about these other races that enable them to retain at least some of their roots despite being 2nd or 3rd generations in a foreign country? They are not subject to any persecution in N. America either. On the other hand, there are some Chinese who apparently never leave Chinatown. Friend of mine was saying that some guy in Chinatown NY cldn't tell her how to get to Soho, which was like juz opp the road or abt that proximity (ppl in NY: feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) because he has never left Chinatown. Also heard of someone's aunt who immigrated to Chicago from HK abt 1o-20 years ago but has still not learnt how to speak or write a word of English. Relied on her husband all her life and when he died, she cldn't even make out a cheque on her own. So that's really extreme and of course, I don't advocate doing sth like that. When you go to a foreign country, it's always beneficial to immerse urself in some of tt culture. Of course, there's a difference bwt going there to study (like me) or escaping to some place in the hope of a better life. For the so-called escapees, I wld find it more understandable if they continued to stay within their own "safety zone". What I find quite sad - and you are free or not to agree with me - is that some Chinese parents don't even speak to their kids in Chinese or teach them anything about their own heritage. I believe that whether or not to continue your traditions is simply a matter of choice. Fine, so North America doesn't give public hols on Chinese NY or Winter Solstice but I do have friends whose parents insist on having reunion dinner or eating tang1 yuan2. Conversely, you could also choose to conform and celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas with turkey (which btw is one of the vilest tasting things on earth apart from durian), like the Americans traditionally do. Being in a hostile envt, SEA Chinese band together and keep some of our traditions alive. But being in a safe haven doesn't necessarily mean that you throw away everything that you used to care for simply becoz there isn't racial politics to worry abt. To end off, let's just say that I used to think ABCs looked down on us FOBs coz they thought they were superior. Now I think it goes both ways: some of them despise our, but some of us despise them too for being rootless and culture-less.
... Hi, I was resisting from posting in this thread because I wanted to see what interesting reponses were made. I too have a very strong opinion about what makes a Chinese. First I want to comment on the number of xBCs on this board! I think I wouldn't exagerate but saying that a majority seem to be of *asian* origin (to avoid confusion, non-caucasion or white). The point in question would be why so many asians like badminton so much? Is it because it is a sport that we can actually stand a chance against (when playing people of other races), but this is a topic for a different discussion. I am a 1st generation BBC (British, England). My parents are both from Hong Kong. My mother tongue is Hakka which is the 3rd most popular dialect of chinese language after mandarin and cantonese. I went to Chinese school (set up by overseas chinese community), once a week for 2 hours, for about 5 years. I speak fluent cantonese and can read and write to some degree. Am I chinese? This is a very subjective question and depends on who is or who you are asking. After many years pondering..I would say NO I was not chinese. I am BBC whatever that may translate to or mean for you. I can speak for a large number of other BBCs and say that yes, we DO DESPISE FOBS, but it's more to do with the things they do rather than the person/people itself. Primarily it is attitude. Whilst we can accept that these attitudes were developed because of different education and environments, what makes them think that they can stamp their attitudes and beliefs all over ours?? Just because we don't celebrate or conform to your beliefs is it necessary to go on a cursing rampage? Most of the FOBs I have come into contact with are overseas students. Because they have relative wealth in China, they command respect in CHINA. They have FACE. But overseas is NOT china. Be it England, America, Canada or anywhere else. They act as if they have priority and importance. They look down on you because you are not well versed in Mandarin (Chinese) or the entire chinese history. You don't share their beliefs or understand their jokes. You don't wear the same old fashioned "western clothing" worn by common elite Chinese that was out since the 70s. Put simply they lack ability to put aside preconceptions and use a little understanding. To the Joe Public in China, we are not Chinese. We are the banana people ( a common analogy, looking yellowy outside but on the inside it is white). This is why a lot of BBCs have given up on their "culture" if we can call it our culture and simply adopted a western culture instead. It is much less troublesome and more hassle free. Having lived (and born) here for about 20 years, I do consider this so called foreign place my home. To older generations, they can never feel comfortable but that is part due to their stubborness and reluctance to learn and part due to limited communication, and therefore the ability to socialise and mingle in. It is true that there are immigrants who after 20 or 30 years of settling, struggle to make a sentence in English. So, we grow up with English people, we go to school with English people, we work with English people and we have relationships with English people but are we English?? (Or American or wherever you are). No. Whilst they can accept you as a school mate, as a friend, as a work mate, you cannot be of superioty status. Even tho attitudes have been changing, and "equal opportunities" is *meant* to be in full force, have you ever seen any Chinese as a top executive in a foreign company? Why do so many BBCs go back into the catering (restaurant/take-away) business even after graduating from University? Is it because they prefer woks to pens? or the fact that being your own employer in your little shop is going to be better than working as somebody's employee for the rest of your life even when you have better qualifications and experience? We lack the look, history and the prestige to be a Brit. All we can claim is to be of British nationality. For me and maybe Cheung? We are not English or Chinese so there is no point in trying to fit in. There is a class in between and that is where I fit in. Mixing the best of both worlds and traditions. We have our own BBC history and culture. It's not English culture and it's not Chinese culture. We have our own existence and same to other xBCs, we do not have to hide behind another culture or religion just so that we get heard. In Chinese, we could be classed as some "wa kiu"(canton) or of some Chinese descent. I too cringe when people treat Chinese, Koreans, Japanese (oriental asians) as all the same. If I tell you it's different, you should at least just accept it and simply not to respond, "you'll all the same anyway!". Referring to Kwun's example of an African guy. If I was interested about him I'll ask him some more questions, If I wasn't that's that. I wouldn't think, just another black guy. In some situations is is easier sitting on the fence just to avoid confusion and embarassment. Generally if an English persons asks, I'm Chinese! until they ask some more that is. Some people reading this post will get offended. Be offended and then move on! Do not get me wrong, I have FOB friends, but they are the exceptions rather than rule. I make friends not based on culture and history. Why should I celebrate the moon festival?? why should I eat moon cakes? why should I eat mandarin in new year? why should I burn paper to dead people? to be honest, not many people give a sh*t nowadays and I'm not just talking about BBCs. FYI I do participate, but only as a sign of respect. Do I believe in it? no. But that's no invitation for anyone to judge me or to impose their beliefs onto me. Even Hong Kong people, do not classify themselves as Chinese, deriving from China. They are simply Hong Kong people. Though technically they are Chinese. What do you all think?? I do not feel Chinese yet I am not English. How many others feel the same? Adel, why are you so angry??? speaking as a FOB, what is your side of the story?
b4 this turns into a rotal rumble,in my opinion , the english word "chinese" is causing some mix up here. HongKies ARE chinese. If u argue not,then y the heck do they celebrate CNY and practice a lot of the traditions? The english word "chinese" actually doesn't specify clearly.but thats not y i posted this reply in the first place......... Main reason is because WizBit,i CAN'T believe u actually twisted the reason y we all play badminton??!! Just bcos we stand a chance against the "gui lao"??This is ABSURD!!! u know, this is actually wat Adel meant when he said "looking down on ones own roots n race". AND if u really think this way,i think u might as well stop playing badminton,if u ever did. shocked.........totally shocked!!!
