Let me open up another can of worms and re-state what I've originally written, if it wasn't clear enough. To Wizbit: I understand what you have written about forming a separate culture that is neither Western or Asian but a mixture of both. I have enough Asian-American friends to understand what some of them always tell me, that they feel they are neither here nor there. I believe that what I am writing are based on my personal experiences. I have nothing agst people who don't burn paper money, eat rice dumplings, mooncakes or mandarin oranges - frankly, I don't do three out of the four things either. I don't curse and swear at people just because they don't celebrate CNY. I understand what you are saying about the behavior of some FOBs because (although I am one myself), it is true that what they do sometimes leaves much to be desired - I have seen and heard instances of people who do not (among others) wash their hands after using the toilet, flush the toilet after using it plus a host of other unmentionable bad habits. And if we're talking about hygiene matters here, yes, it turns me off too. Personally I have not seen the FOB snobs you mentioned in your post so I cannot actually comment on that. I even think I can partially understand the mentality of XBCs because coming from Singapore, I see a lot of people among my circle of family and friends who despise Chinese from the mainland and feel that they are socially inferior for the very same reason as to why XBCs distance themselves from FOBs. And the best thing is that Singapore is 76 per cent Chinese! But what does get me offended - and makes me go on a cursing rampage - is when some XBCs speak and act as though any Asian who comes from Asia are "inferior" (in whatever sense of the word) JUST BECAUSE they are Asians from Asia. I specified in my earlier posting that not every XBC is like that - I do have plenty of Asian-American friends as well - and I acknowledged that it might have been bad luck on my part to meet those people I met. And unlike what you have stated, it is not simply a case of the FOBs acting as though they were superior because they have plenty of money, of lousy personal hygiene like the examples I have given above, or in less extreme cases like talking VERY LOUDLY in the library - as though their grandfather owned it - when everyone else is trying to study. I know of a Korean-American who once said in front of her FOB friends, "Oh, I don't want my kids to look Asian" as though it was shameful to look Asian. I have had times when I just ask people casually if they can speak Mandarin and they answer "NO" in a very disdainful manner. I know a Japanese friend - very modern, open-minded and has been in the States for close to 10 yrs. Nothing undesirable about her - as far as I am concerned - but this Japanese-American in her class kept a distance from her the moment she mentioned she was from Japan. After being in the States for close to 2 years, I am increasingly beginning to understand how difficult it is, among other things, to celebrate CNY in a country that doesn't do so. I have friends back in Singapore who are ethnically Chinese but whose families are not even Chinese enough (in outlook) to celebrate CNY. Like you said, you take part in those festivities as a sign of respect and not because you actually believe in them. You are probably one up above me because there are some so-called traditional Chinese stuff that my entire family does NOT do because it clashes with our religion. The thing is, I don't even expect anyone to be apologetic about not being able to speak Mandarin, celebrating Chinese festivals or knowing why they are celebrated - but at the very least, don't make it seem like it is SHAMEFUL or LOW-CLASSED to do so. It is precisely THIS attitude, not so much the lack of knowledge about your own language or culture that makes me want to go on a cursing rampage. My concluding line in the last post was meant more as an apology than anything else. Before I came to the States, I was warned that a lot of XBCs and other American-born Asians despise FOBs because they take us to be socially inferior. After coming here, I realised that the act of despising people works both ways and that FOBs are equally guilty of whatever we have been accusing XBCs of doing. And in case you are wondering why I am so pissed, I must say my anger is primarily directed at the group of ABCs I know who try too damn hard to be Korean, Japanese or anything else but Chinese. If they think it's shameful to be Chinese, why then is it any more cool to be Korean or Japanese?
PS. I forgot to add that I do partially support your thesis as to why a lot of Asians like badminton. And table tennis for that matter. Simply 'cos we're more successful at it than most Whites. It's a perfectly natural thing to like what you're best at and I wouldn't take that as an instance on despising one's own race.
Invite them to watch this old corny movie. Reminds you of your struggle as a Singaporean. Read LKY's memoirs ?
Good statement Adel. Some people go through different maturing processes (like cheese). So even if they deny their own background culture (as being 'uncool') later they may change. In the end, my own philosophy is to be open minded to all people. After all, you can learn many different things and it would be a waste to reject somebody just because they were more Asian than one's ownself. That principle applies to everything, not just ethnic status
This must be best part. Of course you have to read the Farquhar very fast. The next best is www.hootyou.com. Hoot in Fujianese means wallop and is the favourite word of the gangster.
WAH LAU EH! For the uninitiated, Farquhar is read (sth like) "F***er". Yes, tt's the accurate pronunciation, not juz coz I'm trying to be crude or anything. Just finished my SEA politics midterm today. A bit strange that I'm doing SEA in the States but it has been fun so far. And the prof's apparently wanted by the Indonesian govt so I can try shooting him if I get desperate enough for some duit. Bbn, how come u have all these cool wee-CDs and D-wee-Ds?
Homesick,eh? Get your parents to send you one. Well I learnt from this ghastly vcd Singaporean Innovations of Familiar words like"cheese bun" and "Lunch box".Also much from the storeyteller "Kong Hai Ku". How do all these compare with HK innovations like "Eat Tofu" ?
Adel, Now that you have clarified your point, I am beginning to see where all the anger is coming from. Firstly may I say that as a self-proclaimed FOB your English is most excellent. But then I thought you was from mainland China so I guess English is as common as excess oil and grease in Chinese takeaway food! FOB is usually reserved to define a person from mainland. We'd just call you Singaporean unless you really arrived on a boat LOL For whatever reason that you hate this particular group of ABCs for...because of their rejection of their culture and prejudice towards other Chinese people or because of personal conflicts I do not know. But one thing to bear in mind is that life is very difficult for someone that is born or raised in a 'foreign' country. Bullying and abuse is rife throughout kindergarten/nursery to high school/secondary school. Having a Chinese label attached to you can make your life hell, looking Chinese makes it worse. Especially in poorly educated areas where racism exists in abundance. How many times have your 'friends' asked you if you have tried eating dog? There are relatively not that many Chinese people here. Everyone else is not fascinated by Chinese culture either. It is easier to forget about the non essential things including culture and try to blend in with your other daily peers instead. The tag 'Chinese' is also made mad by foreign press. Chinese are portayed as cruel, stubborn, cold and heartless people with poor attitudes and little regard for others. Much of this has been blamed on the Chinese government. With the arrival of a new 'younger' minister, things hopefully may change. Culture along with religion is also being made into a fashion. To be Korean and Japanese is 'in'. These people just want to look 'cool.' Comparatively is it wrong for a child born into a Christian family to later convert to Islam to his own accord? No one can deny that this group of people are of Chinese descent. As a matter of interest, how old is this group of people? To me you are trying to group and class people together. This is human nature of course, but this organised approach seems inappropriate in this particular instance in this chaotic world. Accept people as individuals and who they are rather than what they are supposed to be. Same as you would respect a gothic, a disabled person or person of another religion. But then this is a western philosophy. Surely one would be locked up for thinking of this in China If God made all men equal, how come there are Kings yet there are slaves. Was there some small footprint that said status was not garunteed? Likewise, why are Chinese and other asian people deemed inferior. An IQ test was performed on whites, asians and black people. The results were asians (inc Chinese) came first followed by whites and then black. I have no idea where and when these test were performed. Would this mean asians are the cleverest race? of course all the people here are educated enough to know the answer There is this old joke, I do not know if you have heard it. It is *offensive but hope you can all see the funny side. God was making man and was cooking them in a pot. The first lot he made was undercooked and was still raw. He called them whites. The next lot he made was overcooked and burnt. He called this blacks. The last lot was perfect, golden and crispy. He called these Asians.
I remember reading about a study done many years ago by an University professor in Toronto. According to him/her, the studies show Chinese to be the most intelligent people and then very closely the Jewish and then ...??. One of the many reasons he found to justify the conclusions of his studies is their ability to adapt and survive during the times of history. Knowledge and experiences passed through generations made them wiser and better equipped to survive. Well that's all that I remember from the article that I read.
*shake head* Can't really believe chinese are all that clever. What might be a more plausible explanation is that via culture, immigrant groups are more adaptable. Jewish and Chinese via their culture are more inclined to work hard at academic disciplines in places where they are a minority. And academic ability is one thing that can measured by a psychologist more easily under controlled conditions.
politics in Ina Read this article from Sunday's Star on line under "comment" section. Cannot possibly reproduce this on this page.
weird...i didnt think that such a topic would go on for so many pages!!!! sooo i speak 100% fluent cantonese can read/write chinese listen to chinese music raised by chinese speaking parents always thought of as being originated from HK BUT i am born in Canada....so what does that make me?
Before posting, let me just apologize once again for the tardiness and for persisting in arguing on a thread that has already been closed (well, not officially though) - given especially the uncertainty in the world today what with the war, SARS, a depressing economy and erm... Leslie Cheung's suicide? But I like closure so allow me to express my two-pence worth yet again. But one thing to bear in mind is that life is very difficult for someone that is born or raised in a 'foreign' country. Bullying and abuse is rife throughout kindergarten/nursery to high school/secondary school. Having a Chinese label attached to you can make your life hell, looking Chinese makes it worse. Especially in poorly educated areas where racism exists in abundance. How many times have your 'friends' asked you if you have tried eating dog? >>>>>> Fortunately for me, I am currently enrolled at a university with a large number of International students and a huge Asian-American community. Indeed, my experience with White students has been largely pleasant - even better than with the XBCs so to speak. Perhaps, this is because at college, people are old and educated enough to know better and I do count my lucky stars for that. Wrt the dog issue, I have been spared this question primarily because 7 in 10 people mistake me for Vietnamese. I do not have the fair skin that characterizes a lot of Oriental East Asians and my last name "Tan" closely resembles Vietnamese surnames for those who are unfamiliar with Chinese dialects. Besides, in the US of A where there is a sizeable Korean population, they are the ones reputed for canine-munching, not the Chinese or Vietnamese although both these races love doggy on their plates as well. There are relatively not that many Chinese people here. Everyone else is not fascinated by Chinese culture either. >>>>>> Here, thanks to Lee Ang's "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" which I personally felt was hideous, many people have a fascination with Chinese-ness of some sort. I see t-shirts with Chinese characters and pictures of Buddha on them, as well as bags embroidered with Tang dynasty poems. Culture along with religion is also being made into a fashion. To be Korean and Japanese is 'in'. These people just want to look 'cool.' Comparatively is it wrong for a child born into a Christian family to later convert to Islam to his own accord? >>>>>> IMHO, you can't compare apples and oranges. No, I will not blame someone who converts to Islam (from any religion) if he truly understands the religion and feels that it will cater to his life better than any other belief. But if that someone were to tell me that he is chooses to become Muslim because it is "cool" or "in" to be Muslim, I will have a hard time taking him seriously. Apart from indulging in the Chinese kisch that I mentioned above, there are also Americans who support the Free Tibet movement and profess to be followers or fans of the Dalai Lama. My question is this: do they really believe in the cause or are they doing it only because Richard Gere and the Smashing Pumpkins are advocates? I don't deny that pop culture has become part and parcel of tradition, heritage and even religious beliefs. And put this way, I suppose Chinese people only have themselves to blame for not producing any teeny bopper pop idol that everybody wants to imitate! Accept people as individuals and who they are rather than what they are supposed to be. Same as you would respect a gothic, a disabled person or person of another religion. But then this is a western philosophy. Surely one would be locked up for thinking of this in China >>>>>> I have my suspicions of any idea that attributes itself to a particular race or culture. No hard feelings against Westerners here but if they really were so open-minded, why the prevalence of prenology and physiognomy during the 18th century, where people's skulls and facial angles were studied to determine how similar or different each race or nationality was? Why the use of terms like "Chink" or the derogatory portrayal of Chinese you yorself mentioned? I don't even want to mention historical events like the Holocaust. Of course, I balk at the thought of stereo-typing people according to their races. I especially hate it when family members tell me that I have become Americanized when I put forward a point of view that differs from theirs. The way I see it, putting labels on people is closing the doors on any possibillity of discussion. It is like saying, "I am Chinese and you are White and we can never come to terms so let's just forget about the whole thing." It is a very easy of excusing yourself from having to dwell deeper into manners and I don't deny that I often indulge in it. But I do not believe that such thinking is restricted only to Chinese or Asians. At the end of the day, I like to think that there is nothing wrong with being proud of one's culture or heritage - so long as we are able to celebrate each other's individuality and the fact that we are all part of a common human race.
From my experience, there are 2 points of view. From a "gwai lo" pont of view, if you look like a duck and quack like a duck, then you are a duck. No matter where you were born, how long you have lived abroad, how westernized you are, or what accent you speak with, if you are a Mongoloid in race, sooner or later, someone will ask you if you are from China. That's when you will be reminded that you are Chinese, whether you want to admit it or not. From an Asian's point of view, the distinction is finer. There is more splitting of the hairs to subdivide a certain individual into subgroups, according to where they were born, where they grew up/ educated, what accent they have, how they dress, the tradition they observe.... etc. An anology is the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish. Their distinction is only of importance if you are one of the 4 groups. To everyone else, they are British! Even though Cheung was born and bred in England, and is English in every other way, I am sure he was treated differently when he was living there. There is always that glass ceiling. That's when it would hit home that no matter how English he feels, he is ultimately a Chinese.
Don;t feel as English as you might think But my gripe is, why HKchinese don't see it that way? (or at least a fair number think that way).
the singaporean chinese most singaporean chinese would consider it an insult if everyone calls us chinese, about 80% of the population r chinese, whether 1st generation or as early as 4th generation, to others we simply would like to known as singaporean, for s'porean to s'porean it really doesnt matter, we know if u r chinese malay indian or others who r also singaporean likewise the malays will not feel right if u link them to malays in malaysia everyone here can speck english as well as their ethnic language as our eduacation system is bilingual..but whether u can speck cantonese or hokkian, teochew depends on whether your parents had taught u, but most would know their own dialet, if not the dialet of others, at least everyone knows the most common hokkian vulgarity our culture here do have some differences, but not so much that people cant recognaise the chinese origins i was watching this british import show, that helps u redesign your room. this british women with chinese heritage, didnt know nuts bout chinese culture wanted her home designed with chinese flavour, the designers got their references from books in the end they used "hell money", paper burnt as offering to ghosts as some sort of wall paper, thinking its some colourful(in USA it will be spelled color, we follow british) chinese paper. now every singaporean, even malays and indians would know thats chinese hell money, and thats ridiculous on a last note, this is wat i think other s'poeans feels, however it might not be accurate
