Hi all, my understanding of orthodox proper forehand clear technique comprises : 1) racket hand elbow pull back, racket point upward, slightly lower than the elbow, the body is 90 degrees to the net, non-racket hand point upwards as a balance, 2) The racket leg pushes upward, creating a hip rotation, and at the same time, the racket shoulder projects upwards, while the racket elbow moves forward and upward, racket naturally rotates downwards pointing toward the floor, and rapid forearm pronation to swing the racket upwards, with racket face parallel to the net, before hitting the shuttle, during the forearm pronation, the index finger push the racket forward to add the whipping momentum before hitting the shuttle. I have been practicing the above for quite a while, but still only managed to hit a maximum of 80% of the full length from baseline to baseline. An hour ago, I chanced upon a video (All England Badminton 2024 R32 match between Ratchanok INTANON (THA) vs KIM Ga Eun (KOR)) It puzzled me that Kim G E managed to have forehand clear from baseline to baseline with ease by doing just the following : 1) turn 50 degrees to 90 degrees of her body, racket elbow close to the side of her body, racket held upwards, use the non-racket hand as a balance, then, 2) The racket hand projects quickly upwards, with no obvious pronation, and sometimes (quite often), body and hip never rotate, simply projecting her racket leg to thrust the racket hand forward and execute a rapid swing is sufficient to send the shuttle from base to base, sometimes even cross court base to base. I didn't notice the racket pulling back and pointing downward to allow a nearly 180-degree power swing. Can someone enlighten me on how she managed to use just a rapid racket swing with less than 120 degrees with not much pronation of the forearm but managed to create such power using mainly her wrist and finger power (I think)? Taking also into consideration that she is a lady badminton player, doesn't look to be muscular, has no body rotation, no 180-degree swing, and no forearm pronation. Simply puzzling.
she is a pro, she can hit cleanly, and fairly beefy for a lady player. her racket prep and technique isnt ideal but works for her. and i can still see her racket rotating 180 degree from the back to the front. are you getting coaching, been coached? maybe it is more helpful to ask yourself or your coach why you cannot full court clear or show us.
Can you give timeframes for where you are comparing I think I see where you mean within the first 30sec.. she is using a lot of upper arm rotation though for sure.. In a sense I don't think there is really unorthodox technique.. In the sense that even if there's a player that "breaks all the rules" , they're still using a throwing action for their overhead. There might be some unorthodox techniques some senses, but not in the sense of "where is the power coming from"! Certainly not in a forehand clear. Like you can't run super fast using mainly muscles in your big toe.. I doubt anybody is clearing it end to end with just finger power and a wrist bend from e.g. extension to neutral or just past neutral. (though it's probably possible in theory..and not something anybody would recommend, and it wouldn't be a high clear if they did) Sometimes beginner players might be taught a really rigid technique . Like you have to do this and you have to do this.. and it can all look and sound a bit mysterious.. But fundamentally, it's a throwing action. If you want to throw a ball. you don't HAVE to turn your body. You could use just your arm and get a pretty good distance. A major part of a throw is upper arm rotation, i'm sure she was doing that. You also don't HAVE to have a huge swing. You could throw a ball quite far even with a small swing. It's hugely important in badminton to be able to clear easily without using things other than your arm, because you aren't meant to always do a scissor kick. And if you are doing a scissor kick to get extra power to clear to the back then that's compensating for a weakness that will bite you, when you don't have the opportunity to scissor kick. It's also good to be able to get the body into it. (I know maybe some coaches might say you gotta get your body into it, but it's not really true.. In some situations you can. ). Look at a late forehand, you can't there. Bear in mind that putting slice on the shuttle often means stopping the forearm pronation, and doing it it's giving the shuttle slice not adding speed. So you certainly don't need forearm pronation to get the depth on a forehand clear. Though it is recommended and can get more power. It's difficult to see exactly what a player is doing but looking at one of her clears, i'm not sure if there's much forearm pronation there, (in which case like you say there), maybe there is , I find it hard to tell, but there's very clearly a lot of upper arm rotation there, as in, a throwing action. So there's no mystery where power is coming from there when you consider the upper arm rotation going on. Look around 0:37-0:40 here Lin Dan vs Tommy Sugiarto | Shuttle Amazing Shuttle Amazing Lin Dan does a forehand clear there without body rotation, and Tommy Sugiarto there does an overhead with no body rotation at all, he isn't in a position to. It can take some skill even to forehand clear end to end. There are numerous things that can be wrong leading to the shuttle not going end to end. It's also possible for things to be wrong and it still go end to end. .. As long as somebody hits the shuttle where they want to hit it, to a good spot, getting the depth they want, good depth, a good quality shot,and it's working, then it's right. And if it's no longer what one wants, then one can investigate/try other methods. Whenever anybody does an overhead, they're supposed to be able to do a clear or drop or smash or half smash.. any overhead shot. And they shouldn't telegraph what they're going to do. So if there is a scenario where scissor kick isn't an option, and you can't clear it, then that's one less shot they have to concern themselves with from you and you become more predictable. As well as just being a far more limited player Some might say oh well if you're a pro you don't have to use your body but everybody else has to.. The fact is there lots of high intermediate players that can't backhand clear end to end but can with just their arm, do a decent Forehand clear , and hit cleanly with a good throwing action.. (without the consistency and footwork and elegance and ability to hit wherever they want in loads of different scenarios that a pro can. ) . Backhand overhead clear end to end is more mysterious 'cos only a small percentage in a club can do it like way less than 10%, maybe even a few percent or a fraction of 1%. Most people wouldn't really be at a level where they're hitting it cleanly. Badminton is a very technical sport (arguably all sports are at a certainl level and beyond). And a player could slice a clear intentionally and it be a good clear.. so unintentional slice causing an unclean hit wouldn't necessarily guarantee a shuttle doesn't make the depth.
"Lin Dan does a forehand clear there without body rotation," he seems to have done it quite effortlessly and casual, he is not hitting at the highest point either, his upper arm is not lifting high either, merely uses lower arm rotation, and perhaps pronation, is that sufficient to be able to hit base to base if the technique is right? and what exactly is the technique to create the power? fingers snapping? speed of forearm rotation (I can see that he is not swing in high speed, just casually)?
There is a lot to unpack when you say what is correct technique, the scenario you're describing is one where you have adequate time to get completely behind the shuttle for a high and deep clear. Compare this to the round the head or deep forehand clear, often you will be under pressure and thus lack the time to fully rotate. That is where the swing has to be more compact and rely more on supination/pronation than a full arm swing. ralphz has touched on this. All of the things you mentioned contribute to power generation - squeezing your fingers/tightening your grip adds to the speed of pronation. However you should be able to hit doubles back line with the complete stroke as an adult. There could be a number of reasons why you aren't for example: Are you hitting the shuttle head on (not slicing)? Are you taking the shuttle at the best contact point (high and on your racquet sweet spot)? Are you relaxed enough before your stroke, tensing at the right time to transfer your energy into the shuttle? Is the swing motion coordinated when you bring the individual components together? Other factors outside of your control: Shuttle speed Drift - only applicable when there is air conditioning or other external air currents Regarding Kim Ga Eun, she is mainly rely on wrist and arm to generate the power - her swing speed and pronation is occurring very quickly. If you slow down the video at 1:58 you'll see the backswing but it's compact so you might have missed it. If you've studied the theory, tried to execute but it isn't working out then definitely consult a coach about what the issue could be.
Debatable, although maybe you're making the same point as below. If you're able to generate power easily with minimal body rotation then there's going to be other things to consider to enhance your game other than more power. For example the body position usually telegraphs what shot you're going to play so if your technique minimises the differences in your body position for different shots then that has certain merits. I don't know whether this is the reason for this technique but I'm sure there's some reason for it. I think beyond a certain level there's no such thing as ideal apart from what's optimal for that player. I have no idea what iteration her technique is on but I doubt this was something that came about because it was overlooked earlier on in her development. The OP however, needs to learn the foundational technique before even thinking about it. She could probably do a full court clear by ten years old.
It's not like every player's overhead technique is optimal for their particular body type. A player has the technique they have because that's what their coaches have taught them. Not like special optimal thing just for them. There is no "optimal". There are lots of perfectly good ways. If they had had different coaches then their style would be different. There are a lot of details that do matter in the sense that it can change some things, but don't matter in the sense that you can play just as good shots regardless. But it's a question of what one has trained. Many coaches are confident teaching their particular style. And their students learn that style. Ultimately one learns the style the coach in front of them is showing them. It's all good. And a bit of understanding that things aren't as rigid as some might claim, is good too.
Two junior players get to the top of their ranks aged 15, one has natural power, the other is fast and can anticipate. They're both going to have everything nailed at that point in terms of fundamental technique. They just go on with what their coaches taught them aged 8-10 and hope for the best do they? Of course not, the one with power has to optimise their game and technique to include deception and the one with speed has to optimise their game to make the most of their power and body rotation to capitalise on the opportunities they create. Otherwise they don't make it. Their coaches will teach them this. What else do you think they are doing? How many coaches do you think pros will have by the time they turn pro? One?
If you look back at Kim Ga Eun's games from late 2010s she used to use her power shots a lot more and put more rotation into them. So what's happened to change that if it's not an adjustment of her technique to optimise her game?
You mean like understanding that players don't always rigidly stick to what coaches teach them and have a level of autonomy regarding what they get to decide is right for themselves and the ability to experiment with their technique? And that coaches aren't always so rigid that their students must precisely emulate the style they teach because it's actually a two way relationship in which both are learning and evolving?
Right so according to you a player ranked 12th in the World has subpar overhead technique, and that's not debatable. Must be an easy sport if you can become a world class player when your main stroke is that of an intermediate player I guess.
Heh no I don't mean that at all.. I agree with you that "players don't always rigidly stick to what coaches teach them", and "have a level of autonomy regarding what they get to decide is right for themselves and the ability to experiment with their technique?" And "And that coaches aren't always so rigid that their students must precisely emulate the style they teach because it's actually a two way relationship in which both are learning and evolving?" I agree with all that that you wrote there. Every sentence! The context I had in mind where I wrote "And a bit of understanding that things aren't as rigid as some might claim, is good too." Is where the OP spoke of technique being "unorthodox". So i'm saying there's a concept of how an overhead shot is done, with a throwing action, and principles. And what she or any top player is doing is well within that. I also agree with you taking issue with this statement that was written in the thread "her racket prep and technique isnt ideal ." .
There's a lot of pros using unorthodox techniques in Tennis too which are highly effective, but they're not generally described as less than ideal, just that they're not textbook. I remember Roddicks serve. Some juniors who tried to copy it had to be recoached as it was so unique to him and created injury potential in others.
Also, in my experience, with higher tensioned strings you can generate a lot of power with a shorter movement, as long as the swing is fast enough and the timing precise enough. When seeing it, it can make it seem like there is not enough movement to hit that hard, when really, it just doesn't take much when the timing and acceleration is on point.
TQ wannaplay, the slow-motion video of forearm pronation seems to me to be the driving force for creating explosive power. I guess I lack the forearm pronation execution as shown in the video. Is there any video showing step-by-step how forearm pronation is executed? From the video, it seems that the elbow is moved forward to a high point, then no more upper arm and elbow movement, and from there on, the racket which is pointing download is rapidly rotated upward through nearly 180 degrees using the forearm pronation, upon explosive hitting the shuttle, then the upper arm and elbow start to swing downward to the non-racket hand side of the body. Am I interpreting it correctly? I think this is my problem of not being able to hit full court because I didn't execute correctly the pronation movement. Thanks.
Hi SnowWhite, I have previously enquired in this forum about racket quality and tension, (I tried searching this previous post to no avail, not sure how to retrieve my previous post), and the few answers I got is "To be able to hit from base to base, you need just the correct technique, one can easily achieve this with a cheap racket and normal tension with about 23 to 24 lbs". That is why I focus on correctly my technique instead of blaming it on my cheap racket and tension. Correct me if I am wrong. I just want to upgrade my technique to be able to hit from base to base with ease. Thanks
Yes, with correct technique you should be able to hit consistent back to back clears. It's just that in my experience, with a higher tension, you can do it with a shorter hitting action. Note that this is more difficult than hitting full clears with a bigger more complete hitting action. And in fact, it is impossible to learn to have a correct short hitting action without first learning the full hitting action. As for why the pro's sometimes use shorter actions, it is usually faster, and it can also be more deceptive. I would say not to concern yourself with short hitting actions. Instead, try to hit with the full 'chain of power': body-rotation, shoulder, elbow, forearm, grip.
