Thank you, yes, I already did, she said that my heart is healthy. Actually, have you ever practiced in Indonesia? I'm close to blackout every 15 minutes of their practice. No air conditioning, hall is more like a bath.
That's great news. No I've never trained in Indonesia, by the sounds of it I don't want to either! I don't train much when it gets above 25 here which isn't that often so maybe that's why I've never been close to blackout. I guess if it's normal to go close to a blackout while training in Indonesia then it's not a problem.
No. This is the old style of training. Now, the emphasis is on training with quality and therefore certain times you push yourself and other times you have lower intensity training or rest.
From your video, there are some skills you should be able to use. I notice you come to the front and take the shuttle very low a lot of times. Why is it like that? Taking the shuttle low a lot of times means you are a bit off balance with less time for the next shot. Do the other players train like this as well?
It wouldn't be normal to be close to blackout in hot weather. I know a guy from the Phillipines who I suppose is used to playing in very hot conditions. He told me that one of the places he played at in the UK over a very hot summer, was similar to how it is the Phillipines. Due to the very hot weather and no air conditioning in the sports hall. I had played there too. Neither of us anywhere near blacking out at all. But a load of sweat , soaking wet t-shirts, and people moaning about the heat.
You both are saying 'retired' or 'old style'. Are you sure that being old means useless? I feel that there should be something more substantial behind a decision what to use in a badminton practice and what not. I mean all the badminton shots are definitely old and, in some sense, retired ))) but we use them. Can we all agree that we still need these intensive style practices from time to time? Call it "super compensation" principle (my coach kindly provided me with the attached picture), "micro cycles" or "no pain - no gain", to me it is just the same old school "work hard" and then "rest well" )) Or you insist on something that I don't get yet? If so, could you please explain in a bit more details? I'm afraid I can be blind about something here. And I do not want to. From my experience I have to play well even while I'm being pushed to my physical limits. For example, when I'm playing against opponent of my level or of a higher level. And then those intensive practices help a lot. Like I'm modeling this situation and still trying to stay focused and keep the precision of my shots on an appropriate level. Maybe there is a better way to be prepared for situations like that? Frankly personally I do not see a problem in being close to a blackout during some practices (not all of them). Some participants of this conversation think that this is a problem. So, I might think about it a little more. My genuine question was why I feel it on a relatively low HR, while do not feel it on much higher HR - is it OK or not? For now, as far as I understood other's opinions this is not OK and the main hypothesis why is it so - bad breathing. I'm already working on it. Not sure to what exercise you refer. Generally, yes, balance is what I'm thinking a lot lately. And I can feel myself being out of it many times, but not always. Specifically, during those 2 exercises I showed in the 2 videos I feel ~ 30% of the time I caught out of balance. It has different reasons. Partially it is connected to the exercise itself. In the first exercise (first video) the coach's goal is to force me to be out of balance and my goal is to keep it going despite being out of balance and try to recover the balance during the next shots of the rally. During the second exercise (second video) all the shots are known, but I have to run alot so sometimes I'm just naturally out of balance. But also in the second exercise I try not anticipate and wait until the moment when the coach actually hit the shuttle and move only after that. That might be the second reason of being late in this exercise. Also, personally, I have lots of reasons to take the shuttle low: - Taking it low during the second exercise (with known sequence of shots) is about being in a more game-like situation where generally I do not have problems when taking a net shot early but taking it late and still play a good net shot back - this is a valuable skill for me and so I prefer to practice it more. - Taking it low during the first exercise (where I do not know what is going to happen next) is one of available methods to slow this particular exercise to give myself more time to recover and prepare for the next shot. Remember, my coach is already waiting for the shuttle on the net and in a real game I would prefer to lift, but here I cannot. If I will take the shuttle earlier then my coach will also be able to take it earlier and in this exercise she is in a bully mode, so she will instantly make a cross lift and it will make my life even more difficult. I have only one option to take it earlier and stay in the game in this exercise - move around 1.5 times faster, but this is not what I want to do now. Please comment if you see some pitfalls in my logic. I feel like I could be blind about so many things.
Thank you, I think I should investigate it more. Of course, it depends on the intensity of the practice, but people around me were not dying. On the other hand, they were young Indonesian professional players, who practices in these conditions from the very early age 2 times a day. But yes, as I said this still might means something and I will learn about it more.
The example I gave was a friend and I playing in horrendous hot conditions so bad that people were squeezing water out of their t-shirts and moaning.. in a club full of intermediate players who don't train daily. No blackouts. . You said yourself even watching badminton you suddenly don't breath regularly. You've seen a cardiologist they don't see anything. Try the other suggestions eg respiratory clinic. A device to monitor your breathing. And considering that even thinking of badminton has you not breathing regularly, maybe try a hypnotist! (And oking ideas with your doctor). If you want to push yourself hard that's one thing but at least make sure you are breathing properly when you do it! Don't push yourself hard by not breathing properly!!!
What do you mean by blackout Syvat? I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing. Are you just talking about being out of breath and not able to go on? I get that all the time when training hard on high intensity physical fitness routines. Or are you thinking this means you are actually close to losing consciousness? Have you ever lost consciousness during training? The only thing I've heard this happening in commonly is weightlifting. I saw a documentary where this happened to Steve Redgrave the rower also during training but he was Olympic level. Does this happen a lot to players training where you are? I know you say you are focusing on your heart rate and not blackout but these things may be linked. If your heart rate is going higher when you're doing other exercise, is that exercise in a cooler place and the heat is affecting you on court and making you out of breath?
Sure. I agree with time to time. I got the impression you are training like this very frequently. Is that correct? This depends on your matches. How long are your rallies in matches? Do you play shots to slow down the rally and take a breath? For example, if most of the rallies are one minute , should you try to play intense five minute practice rallies if you’re going to get blackout? Would two minute practice rallies be more appropriate? The second exercise seems you take it low near the net on purpose. Just want to confirm if that is correct.
How low ? My resting heart beat is around 50-55/min. I'm not on any regular medications and all my cardiac tests have also came out normal.
I would disagree here. It's very much possible to pass out due to exhaustion. Heat stroke is a well known illness. Training hard in a hot & humid environment meets all the requirements for passing out of heat exhaustion. Sure it will vary person to person depending on their age, fitness and hydration levels. Some days might be hotter or a person might have less rest between sessions or played a longer session. Every body has it's limits.
What i mean by not normal isn't that a normal person can just push on and won't black out. What I mean is that a normal person behaving responsible and sanely and taking care of their health would and should stop long before a feeling like that! So what i mean is that somebody feeling like that shouldn't just think ok this is normal play on. No, they should stop playing. (Sorry this post appeared a few times, slight issue with my phone).
It would be prudent to get an ECG to double check at some point in time. A heart rate that low could be heart block in a minority of cases who are also physically fit. I have come across that before.
Sorry for the late answer. I've been on vacation and detached from everything, except of badminton of course )))) A good question. I have never experienced a complete black out, but several times I had a feeling that goes beyond being tired-and-out-of-breath. My lungs got stiff, my legs can barely move, I breath heavily and I feel like if I push myself a little bit further, I will black out. Of course while I have never experienced this for real, I cannot say for sure. For example, in Indonesia I had this feeling every 15-20 minutes and had to rest about 3-5 minutes depending on the harshness of the ongoing practice. I was 38 back then and we practiced with 16 years old Indonesian professional players 2 times a day every day except of Sundays. Particularly in Indonesia it always was connected with a heavy sweat, so that my sneakers fountained sweat whenever I made a step. Teammates followed me with a mob to clean court after me every 15-20 minutes of the practice. That was a truly horrible experience of survival. I could not eat and always laid in my bed in between practices. I got used to this horror in 2 weeks and the third week was OK. This is it. Actually, I'm OK with feeling it after/during "high intensity physical routines". When I run intervals indoor on professional track, I can get myself there pretty quick running very fast. And this is OK, because I can see professional runners around doing/feeling the same. But this is connected also with the high HR. And I can understand this. On the contrary during badminton practices, I get there on a pretty low HR. This what makes me think that something might be wrong with me. No. The feeling of being very week and head goes a little bit round. Like I'm feeling myself suddenly being very lite and out of breath and urgent need to seat down. No pain anywhere. No one. But they are young professional player, and they get used to the weather from early ages. People of my age usually do not practice that hard, so I have no one around me to compare with. I moved to the country of my current presence 2 years ago and it's +40 here during summer and no air conditioning in halls, although now we have a good hall which is air conditioned from time to time during summer. We practice no matter what weather we have. I will be able to check it in a couple of months. For now I can tell that it might be connected, but I'm not sure to what extent. Is it about adaptation? Or is it a permanent feature of my body? I do not know. Now I'll be practicing in a hot hall in a hot country for the 3rd summer in a row. And I could say something more substantial regarding temperature dependency. With this intensity 3 times a week. Usually 30 seconds - 1 minute for a rally. Yes, I can, but I do not need it because I do not get tired during these games due to relatively low speed of these games. I live in a small country and do not have good opponents here other than young professionals from national team. And they are not that strong yet to push me to my limits during a game. They will in a couple of years, but not now. So, I'm pushing myself during exercises they are much more intensive than my real games now. Yeah, thank you, I have to think about it. Probably there is something here. Ehh.. not always. When I know that the next shot I will have to run cross then I'm doing it on purpose. Other than that, it's just me being slow ))))) or conserving energy. Is it bad? My 'Garmin 6s pro' monitors me through all days and nights. It shows 37 resting bpm. I'm feeling myself perfect. Never felt any pain related to heart. This is what I can relate to. And I'm trying to stretch my limits, that is why I'm practicing in compression suit almost all the time except when it's +33 and above in the hall. I can say that for the past 5 years of me doing this I became more heat resistant. No more water fountains going out of my shoes like it was in Indonesia 5 years ago. But I wish for more )))) Would you be so kind to elaborate what do you mean by 'heart block'?
Could it be this? https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/symptoms/hyperventilation I observe during some of the shots, your movement rhythm is one paced. We can say that makes it harder to maintain the rally (or your get tired more quickly during a rally). You don’t really play shots in your practice rally to sometimes slow down the pace and recover the breathing rhythm. In singles, one of the abilities needed is to is to take a rest within the rallies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-degree_atrioventricular_block However, you already saw a cardiologist so I think you don’t have this.
Now you've elaborated on what you mean by "blackout", you've given a much better and more factual explanation than what you said about "blackout". I suggest you describe your symptoms like that rather than with that word. I've had what you've described there myself.. I don't think it's good.. i've had light headedness with some activity. Some observers have thought it a bit unusual. I like Cheung's suggestion of checking blood pressure, I haven't done that, during that, but I would consider it if that happened again. I've even had it where I feel a bit like drunkenness.. I even had it once doing drives with a coach, they said "what has happened you're not normally slow like that, the shuttle went past you and then you look, liked reactions had gone slow". That was their perception and seems accurate, and my perception was iirc maybe my heart rate has gone up , and I was feeling a bit light headed..less alert. So basically some of the same kind of symptoms to you (though granted you've had it without high heart rate).. It's not something I ever got to the bottom of. I never felt a sense of danger from it (and would never use the word you used to describe it "blackout", and as you say you've never lost consciousness), but it's not healthy and probably is a bit dangerous. Morseo the older one is. I was able to improve my fitness gradually to play singles and not do too much in a week. The nervous system needs a rest too. Decades ago when my dad was about 40 I remember him leaping upstairs then having to stop at the top of the stairs and close his eyes for a moment. And I had that too when I copied him at about 10. Id get it now if I did it over more stairs. Blood pressure checked at doctors has been ok but if blood pressure were checked during light headedness then , that'd be interesting. What do you mean by "your lungs got stiff"?! Lungs aside. As for legs, legs barely able to move i've had before. but that's I think lactic acid and playing too long.. That happens to anybody if they play too long or run too long. Maybe your heart rate is very high relative to your resting heart rate? My resting heart rate is quite high, like 70bpm So when it goes high relative to resting heart rate, it's high. Another thing perhaps to consider besides if the heart rate goes high relative to the resting heart rate, is the rate at which the heart rate increases. So if it goes up quickly, vs gradually. But I haven't much experience re a low resting heart rate.. some others here do. Have you checked that yet? It's so easy to check now with a monitoring device connected to a smartphone.
Thank you for the idea, I will pay attention onto it during next sessions. For now, I a little bit doubt it, it looks like I'm on the opposite side of the problem. We started from the hypothesis that during a game I breath badly (not regularly) and so far, I can confirm it. I even hold my breath watching videos of me doing exercises. Also, I feel like my breath is not deep enough while playing. Like I cannot fully stretch my lungs as if I'm wearing some kind of corset. Yesterday we had some game exercises on court when we had to move a lot. So, I focused on breathing and was able to up my HR to 140+ and did not feel anything rather than being out of breath sometimes. And this feels OK, I can understand this, because it's quite similar to what I feel during intervals. Looks like steady breathing helps me a lot )) I think I will continue this breathing focus strategy. Subjectively I do this pretty often, but 1) that could be hard to see inside of those 2 exercises due to their nature, 2) it could be only subjective feeling and in reality, although I feel like I'm lowering the pace of the game it does not happen. Again, thank you for the idea, I will ask my coach to pay attention onto this and tell me if I'm doing this or not. Regarding this I cannot be sure. That might be. I probably should do some specific checks. What could that be? Although I have never been diagnosed with ischemia and I have a high blood pressure not low, when I was a child, I was diagnosed with arrythmia, prolapse and a second rhythm driver. Those 3 were never a real problem just a diagnose on paper, but I could notice arrythmia from time to time. Like my heart is not beating regularly on different occasions and a normal rhythm was overridden with another rhythm (the second rhythm driver). Very seldom like 3 times a year I still notice some episodes of tachycardia, always not more than 1-2 seconds. But again, those are very very seldom. They come out of nowhere like when I'm laying on a sofa. Arrythmia was gone completely only when I started to take BCAA regularly. Like 5 years ago. I noted it to cardiologist but received no response. I bet the connection between these events is not clear to the doctor and looks like a coincidence, but I'm sure it's not. If I continue regular practices and stop taking BCAA then I will receive my arrythmia back. I tried it. Also I read this and it makes me think that I'm right: Again, arrythmia itself never bothered me or affected anything I could notice, but just a fun fact. Thank you for the idea. I will do it. I will have this tool (don't remember it's proper name though) in my Yonex bag always from now on ))) I'm a software developer in one of the busiest project of a very busy software company. No chance my nervous system will be in a good shape ))))) But I'm glad that you manage to do this. Yeah.. I plan to do it. Like I cannot stretch them to full extent, as if I'm wearing a corset. My rest HR is 37 bpm, I fell what I described as being more than just out of breath on ~110 bpm while playing badminton and do not feel this on 150+ while doing intervals. So, it's kind of contradictive. I still do not know how to explain this other than that I'm holding my breath often while playing badminton. Oh, thank you for the idea, I will pay attention to this. For now, observing my past HR graphs I can see, that HR gradually goes up according to the load. Like no surprises here. But I will take a closer look, probably with a new HR tool (I already have one), thank you.
that’s great that you have found something that helps. It’s quite common that people don’t breathe very well. Good breathing technique is associated with having good rhythm. Focus on the common problems first. Remember to play shots in a rally that will help you rest during the rally itself.
That is a much clearer description.. (and much less scary sounding!). You should explain things like that instead of talking of (imagined) blackouts(that never happened!) and lungs going stiff!!!!!! I get the not being able to stretch lungs to full extent if i've eaten a massive amount like 3 or 4 plates of food, 3x-4x what a normal person would eat! No doubt you aren't doing that. What you could do , (And tell the person on the other side you are going to do this so they hopefully cooperate and don't bother you), so what you could do, and particularly as you suspect not breathing properly.. And do this as an experiment. Is the moment you feel that, then just stop, let the shuttle fly off. Close your eyes, relax, don't think about badminton.. Think about something relaxing like a waterfall.. And focus on your breath just try to breath and see if they stretch to the full extent. You might be doing something physically that restricts how much you can breath in For example if I bend my upper back forwards, or just tighten/contract the muscles in my torso a lot, then that would also restrict how much I can breath in. Or something neurological.. you could improve with greater awareness of the body. Maybe a meditation teacher could help you breath properly while you think about badminton.
