Ye gods, no Quite apart from the complete lack of context (when do you use these grips? why?), I have never heard those names before in badminton. Those names are used for tennis grips, and I suspect that the author of that webpage knows more about tennis than badminton Note: according to Badminton England, there is no such thing as an "Asian grip" or "European grip". Elite coaches all over the world teach basically the same grips, with only minor variations.
New grip Hm, some time ago I met the national coach of Finland, and she told me about this new grip as well. I've seen only two players amongst Finland's elite class players that uses this grip, one of which is the Finnish Champion 2005&2006. I've got to say however, the grip looked effective. She told me that while these "old school players" play with this old "hand shake" -grip, this new grip should be applied when teaching juniors. This grip, it makes you force the forearm pronation violently in order to make the racket's head straight towards the court in the contact point. The swing is shorter and more compact, but even more power can be produced since the rackets are lighter and more powerful than before. The contact point should be a bit more backwards from that of the "shake hands" grip's. So the contact point should be almost exactly above your head. After you've hit the shot with such violent forearm pronation, your body's tendom brings the racket's head back up by itself. When executing a forehand crosscourt drop from backhand corner, with this grip, you will execute an incredibly strong outside cut. I was also told that with this grip, full body rotation isn't executed anymore, but a shortened version of it. When before players used to stand like, 90 degrees in proportion to the net just before starting to execute the shot. With this new grip, it should be around 70 degrees because there's not enough time to bring out the full body 180 degrees body rotation. The national coach of Finland whom I spoke with, told me that she found completely new muscles in her back when she executed shots with this grip. I was told that physical training for this grip would be for example standing on your hands while your heels lightly against a wall, then doing hm, push ups(?), but not your head touching the ground, just so that your arms bend a little, then straightening them. In short, you move just a few centimeters lower and then back up. The other player who uses this grip executes hits every shot almost purely with his forearm pronation only, regardless of the shot he's executing. And he hits quite hard. With this grip, delayed clears for example are quite easy to hit, as well as returning flick serves in doubles. As for the world top players using this grip, I've seen Mohd Hafiz Hashim uses almost exactly this same grip. Also, Chen Hong's grip is very close to this grip, and Lin Dan is also using a grip only a little different from this. I hope We're talking about the same thing with Gollum.
Chire -- that's a very intereting post! The observations that you make concur with my (limited) experience of using this grip, and with some of the information presented to me by Badminton England. From my own experience, the swing is indeed more violent and it seems that the power is concentrated better on the impact point, so that less power is lost to the follow through motion. There seems to be an increased tendency for the racket head to rebound, or at least slow down more suddenly with a reduced follow through arc. These characteristics seem to help especially in situations when there is no time for a full swing, although they are not a hindrance for other situations. Badminton England, however, are not presenting this as a new grip. They seem to be claiming that they have always taught this; but I'm not convinced. It seems to me that their teaching has changed significantly in the new coaching syllabus -- for the better! In any case, they are recommending that this grip be adopted as the basic grip, and that the "shake hands" grip should not be taught. ==== Correction: After further discussion with BE, I realise that I have not quite represented their teaching accurately. Here is the change: The basic grip is the same for both forehands and backhands. For both forehands and backhands, the thumb should be somewhat straightened, rather than curled around the handle. This straightened thumb will not be preserved during a forehand smash or clear: when the fingers tighten, the thumb will naturally wrap around the handle for stability. But even on a smash, the thumb should initially lie straight and not curled.
The tendon bringing the racket back sounds like a description of the stretch reflex. I'm not sure that matches with the slowing down more suddenly description. The stretch reflex should be more pronounced when the forearm muscles are relaxed. If the racket is slowing down more suddenly, it sounds like the forearm muscles are doing the slowing down - so they are not relaxed. From watching the video I would say that the smashes demonstrated were flat for 2 reasons: 1. the technique leads to contacting the shuttle lower 2. the feeding was not "real" enough. They were too short and low and the guy was hitting them too far in front of himself rather than moving (maybe he wasn't moving to make it easier for the cameraman?)
The forearm muscles are never going to be relaxed during the smash hitting. It's only in preparation that the muscles should be relaxed. That's the whole idea behind the stretch reflex/stretch-shortening cycle. I think maybe you meant to post the second part in another thread
you could be right. I thought the forearm muscles were supposed to be relaxed around the point of contact. I'm sure there was something on http://www.topracket.com/Badmintology/ about it, but I can't find it now.
Well, I suppose that excessive tension in the forearm muscles would be bad. My point was simply that a relaxed muscle never generates force. Relaxing a muscle immediately prior to tensing it, however, produces the stretch-shortening cycle, which increases explosive power. These concerns affect grips too. Coaches always encourage their players to have a relaxed grip, not a tight one -- yet at the moment of impact, the grip tightens (especially for power strokes). For teaching purposes, it is important to recognise that almost all players will naturally tighten their grip on impact, but many will hold the racket too tightly in preparation -- hence it is necessary to teach "relaxed grips", yet there is little need to teach "tight grips on impact".
Chire - that's a very interesting technique. My coach teaches it and we use it for many shots: clear, net kill, half-smash, jumping half-smash, etc. He tells me that during his competitive days it was his main smashing technique when playing singles. However, when teaching this stroke (using net-kills), he's never explicitly instructed us to use the grip that Gollum is describing. But, as Gollum says, the shift is very subtle, so perhaps our students naturally shift their grips over slightly to this new grip as they practice the shot? As for the relaxation topic, I think that the stretch reflex contributes to the stroke during the back-swing for this stroke. When you pull the racquet back suddenly, you'll be able to accelerate it forward more quickly due to a combination of the kinetic energy of the back stroke being returned in the forward direction and the increased applied force from the stretch reflex. The next part of the stroke is the acceleration phase, where the racquet is brought up to speed before contact. Here, muscles can either perform positive or negative work on the racquet. By relaxing, it will be the muscles performing positive work that will be used, whereas if tensed, some opposing muscles will be active as well, reducing the total work performed on the racquet. During contact, there should be a reflexive contraction to increase the stiffness of the lower arms. This is because the rate of elastic energy transfer is dependent on stiffness. However, voluntarily stiffening the arms is too slow, and will result in lower impact speed. Rather, this contraction should be initiated by the stretch reflex (I think the sudden stretch during impact can trigger a firing of the muscles without a nerve signal having to travel to the brain). While not a voluntary contraction, this reflex can be trained.
I think that this grip would not normally be used for net kills, because they are typically played from well in front of the body and the grip should shift to panhandle instead. Yet there are several varieties of net kills, and this grip might work for the ones that are more like smashes (farther away from the net, and higher). Players will unconsciously adjust their grips, but not always correctly. It should help a lot if they start with this basic grip, rather than a grip closer to panhandle. Grip adjustments are most effective if they are already confident using the correct basic grip, because otherwise the panhandle bias is likely to remain constant through all the adjustments. (Or if the panhandle bias is severe, then it may get worse as the player finds panhandle techniques more and more effective.) For teaching grip adjustments, it is more effective to encourage experimentation ("how could you adjust your grip when the shuttle is too far behind you? or too far in front of you?"), than to teach a new set of individual grips. This reduces the confusion of learning lots of grips, and allows the grip adjustments to become more fluid and adaptable to the situation.
Hey, that's cool. Very interesting "new" grip and great you are able to change your mind and let others be part of your new ideas. This grip greatly refers to many things i saw, heard or experienced. Someone said here in the forum that taufik hidayat uses a forehand grip slithly turned to backhand quite a while ago. I noticed that -different from the smash dwmonstrated from the german trainer detlef poste in the video posted here in the technique section- lin dan makes a rather short action with his raquet while performing overhead forehands. i think there are many different grips for different purposes. other than relying on one grip, knowing the mechniqs and the effect of hitting in a certain way is important. with this slightly backhand forehand grip you are allowed to take the shuttle -for a smash for example- later than with -say- a panhandle grip for smashing like in the smash of the german trainer (see above). And this is the main idea in a game: save time. Not always of course, but if you just have to wait for the birdie to smash it from the middle of the court i think you could use almost all technique if you are a good player. Also with this "new" grip you are really forced to use forearm rotation as someone said, plus it's much easier to perform a smash where in the preparation the raquet head hangs somewhere near your butt. I love this grip and i think i used it in former time but i think than i switched to LYB grip although it didn't work so great for me and my shoulder begann to hurt. Also with the "new" slighly bh grip some times if u are too late u can reluctantly slice the shuttle - Thats why my coach forced me away from it. But know as i understand the mechnic i will use it in some situations such as smashing or clear.
I'd like to draw attention to something that Chire said, which I think captures the nature of this "new" basic grip: (My emphasis added.)
Indeed. I was told that there are mainly two reasons why this grip has become the new standard (well at least in Finland junior coaching), one of which is forcing the forearm pronation violently while the other is the fact that this kind of shot execution requires less time and is more compact.
It seems to me that the stroke and the grip are two separate issues. The grip increases the length of the acceleration phase from pronating the forearm. Obviously, this is of greatest benefit when using a forearm dominant stroke like Chire describes. But certainly, the grip can be used for other overhead strokes, such as the more typical full body rotation stroke. Or the stroke can be used using the conventional forehand grip.
Well, not entirely separate. Clearly, the grip influences the mechanics of the stroke. A more important distinction is between these issues: What is objectively the best grip to use (in a certain situation, with a certain intended outcome)? What is the most effective taxonomy of grips for teaching purposes? In general, the answers to (1) are much more complex than the answers to (2). Grips teaching needs to be comprehensive yet simple. There are hundreds of grips; the trick is knowing what not teach! It's very important to give thought to effective methods of teaching. This also applies if you are teaching yourself -- too much complexity in your analysis is often detrimental. It is usually better to keep the teaching/analysis simple, and learn the more subtle variations of grips by a process of experimentation. Some players learn the grip variations instinctively; others need more guided practice. But in any case, it is better to learn by experience and experimentation than by excessive analysis. In terms of analysis, I believe Lee Jae Bok's smash grip (or the more moderate "shake hands" grip) is supported by evidence from the professional players. In terms of teaching, I believe it is not supported by evidence. Here are my reasons for preferring not to teach an explicit smash grip variation: It's simpler; For many smashes, the basic grip will be better than a variation; The smash grip has numerous pitfalls (see below); The same skill can be aquired through a different form of learning -- experimentation/experience -- with greater sensitivity to the grip changes and none of the associated pitfalls. When I asked Badminton England about Lee's smash grip, they said that they had found no other elite coach who taught this grip (they consulted coaches from China, Indonesia, Korea, Denmark, France, Sweden, Scotland, and Wales). They said that these smash grips should not be taught, because of the following typical consequences: Players end up with a very tight grip; Players find it difficult to hit clears with any elevation; Dropshots lack feel/travel too far into court; Grip changes are poor and they hit out the side when pushed deep in the forehand rearcourt; Players are 100% committed to trying to get behind the shuttle when they hit it but struggle to deal with any shuttle behind them; In trying to get as far behind the shuttle as possible to make the grip work, they are often spinning backwards away from the shuttle when they connect, rather than driving upwards and forwards. Obviously points (2) and (3) above only apply if the players adopt this grip for clears and dropshots. We can tell them not to do this -- but it's quite likely they will anyway. To make this seem less theoretical, I should mention that I found myself suffering from all six of the above problems after I had been playing with Lee's smash grip for a while. Yet I am a pretty experienced and competent badminton player, I have exceptionally good analytical skills, and I had watched Lee's video many times and understood that he was only recommending this grip for smashes! In my view, that demonstrates that even experienced and analytically sophisticated players are likely to suffer the above pitfalls. What hope does a beginner have?
If I am not wrong (the LJB smash video in my account has expired for long time), in the demonstration, all the smashes are hit with straight elbow upon contact. It means player has to get quite far behind the shuttle. That could explain why the use of LjB grip is effective. For situations when the shuttle is above player's head or slightly in front, the neutral grip, or this new grip would be better. I used this grip instinctively in double when i am at the net, to smash a weak return which barely passes above me. Correct me if I'm wrong: with this new grip, the angle of the elbow between the forearm and upper arm (upon contact) will be smaller, i.e closer to 90 degree , rather than something like 180 deg. in LjB style ?
What are your thought on using tools to provide feedback to the player as they perform their stroke? From my experience, swinging a racquet with the cover on will result in wind resistance that will let you know the orientation of the racquet head in space. Other ideas I've had include putting a plastic bag over the racquet head (some wind resistance plus auditory feedback) and perhaps attaching a ribbon the the racquet so the racquet path can be seen more clearly. While it's unlikely that I'd use these methods as a primary way of teaching, it can be useful to have tools to present information using methods other than verbal explanation and visual demonstration.
That's an interesting question, and not easy. As for racket covers, they can be very useful for training "finger power" at the net. I hadn't thought of using them to train the overhead swing, but the idea has some merits. The trouble with using this is that it's too hard for most beginners. It's more a training aid for intermediate or advanced players. It can be used both for technique and explosive strength training for the forearm. The technique training, however, is mainly for the shorter swing strokes like lifts, smash defence, and drives. If you can make a good swing with a head cover on your racket, then you are doing pretty well. I think beginners will simply find it frustrating (and some might strain their arms). Yet you could certainly use this method in a very specific practice, which is designed purely to give them feedback about the angle of the racket. Probably slow shadowing would be the best way to do this. One major benefit of such a practice is that it would encourage them to leave the pronation until the last moment, making it more sudden and powerful -- in other words, it might help them to learn the timing of the swing. I might try that out! I find the best teaching aid for the various swings is to throw shuttles. Every power stroke (forehand or backhand) has an associated throwing action, and getting players to practise the relevant throw first is useful, because it allows them to isolate the swing from all the other coordination issues. Then they can try to transfer what they've practised into hitting shuttles with a racket. There was a good little section on the various throws to coach in Power&Precision, the BE coaching magazine, April 2005. I can type out the coaching points if anyone's interested
It didn't look like an especially straight elbow to me: the angles seemed much the same; but certainly this smash grip requires that players get behind the shuttle (generally a good idea, but sometimes not achievable). It's worth mentioning also that Lee recommends curling the thumb around the grip, as opposed to straightening it. Although he's absolutely right that the thumb will need to curl in order to grasp the racket firmly on impact, this teaching is a little misleading. Grips vary throughout the stroke, and it is better to start with a more relaxed grip with the thumb somewhat straightened. Very few players have a problem with holding too loose a grip when smashing; almost everyone naturally tightens the grip to hold onto the racket. In contrast, many players hold the racket tightly throughout the stroke, which leads to power-destroying tension in the arm and a loss of use of the fingers.
