Un-Improving???

JChen99 · 08-22-2002, 02:56 AM

It's like i hit a bottleneck and slide backwards
Few weeks ago I could kill one of the coaches but now I can barely hit the brid at the right time... wut's going on??? Anyone got similar experiences?

And also... it seems to me that I only improve when I first start a new set of drills with a different coach. After some time, improvement becomes limited and I eventually start to slide back to the skill level when I first started doing the drill (well... with minor improvements in "other" areas...)

I have a theory that when I first start i train harder than when I have done the drill for sometime. But I have actually kept exceding my previous limit (ie. we do this beep test where u run across 6 courts horizontally, and as the level increase, time between the beep decreases)

Some help. advice? Actually... anything will do.
Thanks!

*Mag* · 08-22-2002, 03:23 AM

Just hang in there! This is part of a natural development cycle. You're in the low right now... you feel like you have lost everything... well, you haven't, it will return and when you start to rise up again you will reach higher than you were before. Don't worry.

ivan · 08-22-2002, 03:33 AM

Hang on there JChen!
I been there, I know how it feels, you kindda feel weried and in all the sudden you lost all your best shot at a time. Like Mag said, its natural development cycle, you will be better once you get back to where you were.

badrad · 08-23-2002, 12:30 AM

Jason, if you are embarking on improving your game, you also need to take a serious look at the quality of games you are playing at other times. You should try to challenge yourself to play with stronger players so that the drills and training you are doing can have a chance to be used. And yes, the cycle is natural for every athlete to plateau. the next jump in improvement will be just as dramatic - so just be patient.

JChen99 · 08-23-2002, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by badrad
Jason, if you are embarking on improving your game, you also need to take a serious look at the quality of games you are playing at other times. You should try to challenge yourself to play with stronger players so that the drills and training you are doing can have a chance to be used. And yes, the cycle is natural for every athlete to plateau. the next jump in improvement will be just as dramatic - so just be patient.

I hope u guys are right about this. Because my last "low" only lasted a week or so... but this one is kinda dragging on...

Well at Cameron I dont really get the chance to play with better players... cuz I doubt there are many that are good who play recreationally (even monday nights. there are only some that are considered "better than average" and even fewer that can be considered "good")

Sunday nights I usually try to challenge the coaches unless I'm already dead tired from the drills... They work u SO MUCH there!! ( I know it's kinda a big jump for me in terms of skills, but... wut the heck

). For after the game I also will get pointers, advices and sorts (kill two birds with one stone

)

Thx for the boost in confidence guys ^^ appreciate it!

badrad · 08-23-2002, 12:45 PM

leave cameron... go to pinetree or the vrc. if your folks are rich, join hollyburn or vlt. get into the stronger clubs.

also, don't judge a book by it's cover. there are a number of players at cameron that are very good and experienced tournament players. they play there for fun only during the off season, but they are also very selective on who they play with. they play more seriously when they are in a tournament.

also try to remember this - just because your opponent does not smash, doesn't mean they can't. be aware of the opponent with the hard smash, but be more concerned of the opponent who does not need to...

Californian · 08-23-2002, 01:00 PM

You may want to vary your routines. You say you initially improve when you start a new set of drills. I'd say that after a few sessions with the same drills, go ahead and work on something different, or at least make some kind of variation on the old drill. You need to occassionally introduce some freshness and variety into your routine--you body and your mind need that.

cooler · 08-23-2002, 01:05 PM

It is unfortuante that too many players judge players and racquets quality by how well they smash.

badrad · 08-23-2002, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JChen99
It's like i hit a bottleneck and slide backwards
Few weeks ago I could kill one of the coaches but now I can barely hit the brid at the right time... wut's going on??? Anyone got similar experiences?

And also... it seems to me that I only improve when I first start a new set of drills with a different coach. After some time, improvement becomes limited and I eventually start to slide back to the skill level when I first started doing the drill (well... with minor improvements in "other" areas...)

I have a theory that when I first start i train harder than when I have done the drill for sometime. But I have actually kept exceding my previous limit (ie. we do this beep test where u run across 6 courts horizontally, and as the level increase, time between the beep decreases)

Some help. advice? Actually... anything will do.
Thanks!

try not to miss the long term picture with the drills. for each drill, you may achieve initial success - but you are the one who defines what is success in accomplishment. for instance, take a simple exercise like performing drop shots from the back court. what are you trying to acheive? let's say an initial goal to just be able to perform it correctly. next goal, zero errors in let's say 100 consecutive. next goal, check conformity of stroke movement to smash and clear. next goal, add movement from front court to rear court. next goal, quicker drops. etc....

challenge yourself each time you get on the court!

JChen99 · 08-23-2002, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by badrad
leave cameron... go to pinetree or the vrc. if your folks are rich, join hollyburn or vlt. get into the stronger clubs.

Going to Pinetree is possible(that's why I go every Sunday), but places that takes more than 20minutes to drive to (ie: down in Vancouver) is not an option for me. For the distance is too long so gas $$ is quite an issue.

Quote:

also, don't judge a book by it's cover. there are a number of players at cameron that are very good and experienced tournament players. they play there for fun only during the off season, but they are also very selective on who they play with. they play more seriously when they are in a tournament.

Yes, I have noticed that. But there are only very few out of those who go on monday. Maybe 7 or 8 (including you) at most. Can usually tell by watching their footwork/strokes/positioning

Quote:

also try to remember this - just because your opponent does not smash, doesn't mean they can't. be aware of the opponent with the hard smash, but be more concerned of the opponent who does not need to...

HAHA! I kno what you mean

I have actually learned that during the summer - those who dont need to smash are the most dangerous(of course i learned it the hard way :P as usual) They can simply put you away by making you run from corner to corner for every shot because they place it so precisely

JChen99 · 08-23-2002, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Californian
You may want to vary your routines. You say you initially improve when you start a new set of drills. I'd say that after a few sessions with the same drills, go ahead and work on something different, or at least make some kind of variation on the old drill. You need to occassionally introduce some freshness and variety into your routine--you body and your mind need that.

hmm... i suppose, but the drills are ran by coaches at the place i go to. They DO "try" to vary the routines, but usually are not too successful -.-" also, they emphacise too much on cardio exercises and speed - this is the big one(but are not necessary utilizable on the courts - ie: sprinting in a straight line for about 80m)

My cardio is not too bad (and has improved slightly during the summer due to the 1 vs 2 coaches drill we do -.-") and I've always had high confidence in my speed. So i hope to get more footwork drills, so I can be "everywhere" on the court at all times

badrad · 08-23-2002, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JChen99

hmm... i suppose, but the drills are ran by coaches at the place i go to. They DO "try" to vary the routines, but usually are not too successful -.-" also, they emphacise too much on cardio exercises and speed - this is the big one(but are not necessary utilizable on the courts - ie: sprinting in a straight line for about 80m)

My cardio is not too bad (and has improved slightly during the summer due to the 1 vs 2 coaches drill we do -.-") and I've always had high confidence in my speed. So i hope to get more footwork drills, so I can be "everywhere" on the court at all times

in group training and for most young players, cardio and fitness is easier to "coach" than actual technique. with a large group, it's a necessary evil from a coach's standpoint, and reserve the technique training to personal ro smaller group sessions. also variation of exercises is important to maintain freshness and enthusiasm in the students.

as for being 'everywhere' on the court at all times... good training for footwork must be complemented with anticipation and ability to watch the opponent and the shuttle try to concentrate on being exactly where you need to be at the earliest possible moment allowing yourself the maximum amount of options in response. there's enough players out there running around the court like chickens with their heads cut off, you don't need be like them.

Californian · 08-24-2002, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JChen99

hmm... i suppose, but the drills are ran by coaches at the place i go to. They DO "try" to vary the routines, but usually are not too successful -.-"

I don't know if this would apply to your coaches, but I wonder how many of the coaches out there are just advanced players passing on what they've learned, but have no professional teaching background. It may be that too many international players looking to make extra money have only their competative accomplishments in their resume, and clubs are willing to pick them up based only on that distinction. What is required to be a paid coach? How many coaches have studied kinesiology, or learning theory, or have some kind of teaching credential, or a degree in physical education?

We've seen in other sports that great athletes often don't make good coaches. A coach should not only understand all the details of the sport, but also understand people and be able to communicate things effectively and use proper psychological methods. This may especially be a problem when cultural differences exist.

JChen99 · 08-24-2002, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by badrad

in group training and for most young players, cardio and fitness is easier to "coach" than actual technique. with a large group, it's a necessary evil from a coach's standpoint, and reserve the technique training to personal ro smaller group sessions. also variation of exercises is important to maintain freshness and enthusiasm in the students.

as for being 'everywhere' on the court at all times... good training for footwork must be complemented with anticipation and ability to watch the opponent and the shuttle try to concentrate on being exactly where you need to be at the earliest possible moment allowing yourself the maximum amount of options in response. there's enough players out there running around the court like chickens with their heads cut off, you don't need be like them.

Yah... that's what I'm trying to work on besides my footwork, but I'm still finding myself not aware exactly where the opponents are, not so much when playing Singles but quite a lot more when I'm playing doubles. I think it might be the fact that doubles game is usually faster than singles?

*Cheung* · 08-24-2002, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JChen99

Yah... that's what I'm trying to work on besides my footwork, but I'm still finding myself not aware exactly where the opponents are, not so much when playing Singles but quite a lot more when I'm playing doubles. I think it might be the fact that doubles game is usually faster than singles?

No, it's because there are 3 other players on court as opposed to singles which only has one other player. With the larger court area, the permutations in player positioning are increased tremendously.

Following from this logic, it would take longer to learn how to play doubles to a high standard compared to singles...............

JChen99 · 08-25-2002, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cheung

No, it's because there are 3 other players on court as opposed to singles which only has one other player. With the larger court area, the permutations in player positioning are increased tremendously.

Following from this logic, it would take longer to learn how to play doubles to a high standard compared to singles...............

yah... this is definately true. However, singles player would need WAY higher endurance than doubles player... And better "form" as well

On the other hand... doubles player needs faster reflexes

08-22-2002, 02:56 AM	#1
JChen99 Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada Posts: 1,044	Un-Improving??? It's like i hit a bottleneck and slide backwards Few weeks ago I could kill one of the coaches but now I can barely hit the brid at the right time... wut's going on??? Anyone got similar experiences? And also... it seems to me that I only improve when I first start a new set of drills with a different coach. After some time, improvement becomes limited and I eventually start to slide back to the skill level when I first started doing the drill (well... with minor improvements in "other" areas...) I have a theory that when I first start i train harder than when I have done the drill for sometime. But I have actually kept exceding my previous limit (ie. we do this beep test where u run across 6 courts horizontally, and as the level increase, time between the beep decreases) Some help. advice? Actually... anything will do. Thanks!

08-23-2002, 12:30 AM	#4
badrad Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Surrey, Canada Posts: 1,505	complement your training with better quality games. Jason, if you are embarking on improving your game, you also need to take a serious look at the quality of games you are playing at other times. You should try to challenge yourself to play with stronger players so that the drills and training you are doing can have a chance to be used. And yes, the cycle is natural for every athlete to plateau. the next jump in improvement will be just as dramatic - so just be patient.

08-22-2002, 03:23 AM	#2
Mag Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,307	Just hang in there! This is part of a natural development cycle. You're in the low right now... you feel like you have lost everything... well, you haven't, it will return and when you start to rise up again you will reach higher than you were before. Don't worry.

08-22-2002, 03:33 AM	#3
ivan Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: USA Posts: 94	Hang on there JChen! I been there, I know how it feels, you kindda feel weried and in all the sudden you lost all your best shot at a time. Like Mag said, its natural development cycle, you will be better once you get back to where you were.

08-23-2002, 12:45 PM	#6
badrad Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Surrey, Canada Posts: 1,505	leave cameron... go to pinetree or the vrc. if your folks are rich, join hollyburn or vlt. get into the stronger clubs. also, don't judge a book by it's cover. there are a number of players at cameron that are very good and experienced tournament players. they play there for fun only during the off season, but they are also very selective on who they play with. they play more seriously when they are in a tournament. also try to remember this - just because your opponent does not smash, doesn't mean they can't. be aware of the opponent with the hard smash, but be more concerned of the opponent who does not need to...

08-23-2002, 01:00 PM	#7
Californian Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 554	You may want to vary your routines. You say you initially improve when you start a new set of drills. I'd say that after a few sessions with the same drills, go ahead and work on something different, or at least make some kind of variation on the old drill. You need to occassionally introduce some freshness and variety into your routine--you body and your mind need that.

08-23-2002, 01:05 PM	#8
cooler Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Basement Boiler Room Posts: 20,489	It is unfortuante that too many players judge players and racquets quality by how well they smash.