Many years ago, I tried to side slice the shuttle on service in doubles. The shuttle would be held nearly vertically with racquet head slicing across horizontally. This way, the serve would still be legal (because hitting feathers and base the same time) . Spin could still be imparted on the shuttle AKA Sidek's style, though not as drastic. The advantage is that the opponent cannot control the shuttle so well and instead of hitting down or flat on the return of serve, the shuttle pops up above the level of the net Some points on this experience: 1) it works better with a feather shuttle 2) new feathers are better because more friction with the strings causing more spin 3) Memorably, in one tournament, on the return of serve, the shuttle spun off the racquet of my opponent and went out of court. 4) In the same tournament, somebody walked round to the side of the court to look at my serve closely (I guess to check the legality) but nothing was mentioned then or later. 5) Very difficult to get consistent low serves even with lots of practice. So I use a different serve (which is very good [as said by other people]) 6) can still flick serve Anybody tried this method of serving and managed to improve the consistency so that it is their regular service action? PS I haven't tried it in yrs and only just remembered because of the "top spin" thread.
I use this technique every now and then, but very sparingly. It's risky (the shot is extremely difficult to control) and I've found it's really only effective as a "surprise" shot, maybe once every match. I've used this mainly for masking short serves, a "standard" slice executed with some arm swing to give the impression of a long serve. The downside of this is that the shuttle seems to fly much slower than normal -- it kind of hovers in the air. Part of the surprise effect is lost on a fast-reacting receiver. I haven't explored this much in long serves, however. I felt the technique was too erratic - maybe I'm wrong? Btw, what do you mean by "AKA Sidek's style", Cheung?
really? the rules is a bit ambigious on it, but it says: 9.1.4 the server's racket shall initially hit the base of the shuttle; does that mean it must hit the base and <i>only</i> the base, or can it hit the feathers as well? most international players are playing it safe by pointing the base towards the racket face so the is no chance of being faulted..
RE: really? I believe the slide serve is a nice novelty to have where one might get away with recreation and local tournament plays. The downside are: 1. Hard to control for the server as well, so the risk applies to the server as well 2. Not allowed on IBF tournaments (where dedicated serve judge is watching) That's why I've never seen any pros do them. The potential for fault is too great to give away. Unless the shuttle is less than 1 inch over the net, i can bury the shuttle because the shuttle hung time is so long.
RE: really? Simultaneous striking of the feathers should still be acceptable under that definition. As to your second point, I'm not so sure. This will be the start of another thread.
RE: really? Cooler, can you bury the shuttle all the time? Where do u stand receiving and how tall are you? What level are you playing at? State/Province? (I can't remember if you've mentioned this before)
RE: really? i still think that rule is ambigious. from the plain wording, it seems that it is a either/or logic, but i can see that they are implying with a exclusively logic. do you want to mail IBF and ask them?
RE: really? We called this serve the "floating serve" because the bird floated. I believe it was started by Tang Hsien Fu, actually the Chinese National men's badminton team coach in mid-70s. I can perform quite well this serve. Basically for me, there are 3 varieties of spins that you can transfer the shuttle: curving like a snake (going left and right); spinning and going downwards when crossing the net and floating up and down during the travel. You need to adjust the angle of the racquet head when hitting the shuttle in order to produce different "floating" patterns. This service is actually made illegal by current IBF rules. As Kwun has pointed out, server must hit the cork first. It will only be acceptable if feathers are hit after the initial contact with the cork. And this rule was introduced with the purpose to eliminate the reverse spinning serve which was popular during the early 80's. This is also the reason why actual doubles players hold the shuttle in a way to give clear indication to the service judge that the initial contact between the racquet and shuttle is the cork part. Viver
RE: really? cheung, i hope i didn't come across as rejecting your slide serve technique. Sometime i feel confident on my opinion that it may seem offensive to others, or sometime the topic may be too detail to explain and i just only make a short direct points. Hope that posters out there aware of that. IMO, technically, a slide serve is legal on condition that the string of the racquet strikes the cork first, or in a perfect incident, the string of the racquet strikes both cork and feather simultaneouly. Since i serve without looking at the shuttle, making a simultaneous contact is more luck than skill. In real tournament with service judging, would i risk a service fault since such call are subjective because the contact time is so short in duration. ie, my words against the service judge call. I can tell u that players alway loose against a service judge call. IMO, slice serve is NOT a deceptive stroke. I can see it coming. I maybe fooled the 1st or 2nd time been serve to me, but i can adjust and counter slice serves afterward. Beside, with some training and drills on receiving slice serve, i look forward to a slice serve because it is much harder to execute a perfect slice serve (no fault and shuttle fly 1 inch or less over tape) than me making a return slice serve. That's why i dont see pros do slice serve in real tournaments. I stand very close the the front service line on receiving serve and close to touching the T while i'm serving. Actually, game pace and skills of my opponents dictate where i stand on service. When i say burying a service shuttle, that depend how high the shuttle fly over the tape and how good or fast the opponent chase my deflection. When the deflection is fast enough that the back opponent couldn't return my sharp downward drive after they served, to me, that is burying a shot. It does not have to be a smash. IMO, height don't dictate how good a player can 'bury' short serve. Speed does. Well maybe, only for players less than 3 feet tall.
RE: really? furthermore, sometime i see the pros hold (from training) the service shuttle at such angles that is not advantages to the server but just to show the service judge that the cork is strike first.
RE: really? I like to repeat Cooler's words here "Sometime i feel confident on my opinion that it may seem offensive to others ...". What I'd like to stress is the service. It is a MUST when serving to hit the cork first. Kwun pointed out the rule: 9.1.4 the server's racket shall initially hit the base of the shuttle; which clearly indicates that you must first hit the shuttle base first. It is a fault if the server hits simultaneously feathers and cork at the same time. In international tournaments Tian BingYi was faulted several times for using backhand serve with the bird paralell to the racquet and horizontal to the ground. Later he changed the way he held the bird having the cork pointed towards his body in order to avoid troubles with the service judges. I did not go into all details but I'm quite confident about my opinion. This topic was debated in a badminton course that I had and I lost the debate (I tried to find loopholes to allow me to perform my spin serve again). Mr. Yu HongJun from China, a very experienced international badminton umpire went through the rules and made it very clear that the first contact between the racquet and shuttle has to be the cork and racquet. This is also one of the fundamental points one must know if he/she wishes to be a badminton coach. Regards, Viver Viver
RE: really? thanks for the clarification viver. Personally i dont have IBF rule book with me but i know that the racket must strike the shuttle's cork first. That's why i said the spin serve is more of a novelty shotmaking than a practical one. I dont use it and no one had use it on me yet. The simultaneouly cork-feather contact can be debated more on an theoretical level but as i said before it is not a practical serve anyway because no one can make a perfect simultaneous contact. Even if i truly hit the cork first and then contact the feather 1 nanosecond (1e-09) second later, it would be a technically correct serve but the service judge won't see it that way and would call it a fault. So the moral of the story here is to make damn sure to contact the cork first with plenty of safety margin or time delay before touching the feather, better yet, try not to contact any feathers. Yes, on club plays one could get away with spin serve just for fun.
RE: really? Hey, I've been reading the debate and quite interested. I have a friend who serves that way. Do you mean where the server stands on the far right end of the court and serves to the opponent's far left end of the court? Also, where can I get the IBF rule book?
RE: really? Cooler, If someday you meet somebody good at the spinning serve ask him to serve you a few and try to receive them. It's not impossible but you'd probably find hard to push or net drop. Spinning serves either by forehand or backhand (forehand serves produces stronger spin) when well done you'll notice that it is hard to the receiver to predict the flight pattern. Not only does the shuttle spins it also change the flight speed (accelerating and desaccelerating during the spinning motion) making the receiver hard to push/kill even the bird is high over the net. Some players are able to make the shuttle spin so wildly that when going across the net the feathers are pointing towards the receiver. I myself tried many times (even being told that the serve was going to be a short one) during training sessions to intercept my coach's spinning serves but more often than not I failed. Sometimes I could not even touch the bird. It seems like a tale but wait until you find one good at this and you'll see. In the meanwhile happy badminton... )
RE: Thanks Wow, such an active discussion. Thanks for the clarification. Even though I stopped using this serve because of the lack of control, the information given has been interesting. Hey Cooler, I had no feelings of being offended. Sorry if it came across that way.
RE: really? viver, thanks again for the enlightenment. I guess no one had give me a good spin to judge the difficulty on the receiving end so your experience is well taken. As you've said the birdy flight under a spin can be erratic and wild. To me that mean the server is taken some risk of a inaccurate serve, ie, to get the spin but sacrificing control of height over net and landing close but inside of opponent service line. Yes, with practice, one can improve the spin serve with proper height and distance but it is not predictable even for the server. It is like an ace on a tennis serve. It is a low percentage serve. If the serve goes well, great, easy point. If not, one can lose the serve. I'm glad badminton is not like tennis, where the player has at least 2 try to bury his opponent on service. In badminton, without the spin serve, the rally begin with both side close to 50/50 on offense and defense, and we get 1 try/player.
