Singapore has never qualified for the Uber Cup before although she came close last year before being ousted by Japan and Hong Kong. There just wasn't enough women power to form a respected team good enough to take on the world. The SBA's official Uber Cup target is still 2012. But things are beginning to change, now that Singapore has recently "imported" another two new China girls, Li Yujia, 20 and Xing Aiying, 13 to complement one local and six other lady Chinese shuttlers. Xing is the youngest ever Chinese to join the SBA and she is the Nanjing city age-group champion since 1998. Li was second in the 2000 World Junior and Asian Junior Championships' doubles event and was formerly a China national youth squad trainee. It is quite obvious that the ambition is to qualify for this premier women's team event (Uber Cup) by 2006. The new Chinese girls will find Singapore an easy place to live in, with such a huge Chinese population and the company of the other Chinese ladies who came before them. China has so many talents that she can afford to release many whom she considers not quite up to her mark. Countries like Singapore, who are interested in promoting the game, are doing such "discarded" talents a mutual service by taking them in and helping to develop them into champions. In a way, such imported talents can help to raise the standards of, and bring glory to, their adopted country. One such case is Li Li, 19, who became the recent Manchester Commonwealth Games champion. Li Li was discovered and brought to Singapore when she was around 14 years old. Together with Ronald Susilo, ranked 8th in the world and an ex-Indonesian, Li Li recently won the Olympic Solidarity scholarship, which had 25 recipients worldwide including Taufik Hidayat, Wong Choong Hann and Mohamed Hafiz Hashim. Much debate has been made on the case for and against "imported" players. Do you think Singapore is doing the right thing? Is there any "real" glory achieved from such imported players when they win for Singapore. What if such players later became citizens of their adopted country, like Ronald and Li Li? Or must glory come from only home-grown and home-bred players, despite the fact that many of our forefathers were once immigrants?
A very nice last paragraph pointing out the origins of many 'indigenous' S'poreans. My view is S'pore has an immigration structure based on skills. If a potential migrant has the skill/knowledge, they can live in S'pore and may eventually take up citizenship. why should sport be viewed as anything different? It may be stating the obvious but many people want home grown talent. Fine, if they can be groomed. You need infrastructure, coaches and players. If you lack the players, what happens next? I have no objection to this scenario if those players are willing to take up their adopted country's citizenship. Look towards the US team. Many adopt the colours of a new country.
Just been in a similar debate to this in another forum regarding England importing players to patch up their squad. If the players are genuine passport holders who make the country their home then that is fine, and after the normal period they can qualify for their adopted country. Problems....Chinese origin women could probably fill 18 of the top twenty women in the world. So if we have a euro champs and there Camilla (until she retires) and 7 "chinese" in the quaters is that good for sport. Wales have taken a similar approach and imported 3 former England players to make up their squad. Thats to much. The point of international competition is that it provides a pinnacle for the whole play structure within a country. As such all the players in the country and coaches, clubs contribute to the strength of the national team. When you import players you negate this. What is the point of running junior teams if you then slot in an imported player above them. In the worst case a rich country could pay players to defect and effectively buy success!
The point is 'balance'. A weaker nation might have a policy of importing relatively more players. A stronger badminton nation might just want a couple of players to increase depth. Also, higher quality, 'daily' sparring. That point has not been raised. If your players go to international tournament and keep getting knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round, that doesn't make sense. So your 'home' players perhaps only get 12 international tournaments a year. For the point of junior teams, I think it sets the new standards that they need to aspire to. At least they have a better depth of understanding of the requirements needed early on. I think it is short sighted to just say...'it is a bad idea because of xx,yy,zz" for this situation. Sure, there will be positives and negatives over periods of time. However, the policy is flexible. Just as countries change their immigration rules, the badminton association can do this as well. One positive is that the 'imports' will provide, at least, increased publicity of the game in a local sense.
DLP, I agreed with some of your statements (as regard to the infrastructure) but how do you define "imported" talents? What if someone from China (say age 13-14) emigrated to England with their family and continue training and after qualifying for British citizenship, played for England at say, age 20, 21? Is she considered import? (e.g. Mia Audina who married a Dutch and is now a citizen of that country). I am sure that all of us would be outraged if a country went out and bought players. The IBF have taken steps to ensure that this will not happen as players have to be citizens of the country and that they have not played under a different association in the previous year, etc (not sure of the exact rules/regulations). I think the situation is similar to ice hockey in Canada. A lot talented players could not make the NHL cut and so ended up playing in Europe and Asia. One could argue that these guys are professional but we do have players with dual citizenship who would play for Germany, France (as examples) because they can't make the Canadian National team because of the number quality players. I think Mag has haboured dreams of maybe playing in the Olympics for another country because it is almost impossible for him to qualify for the Denmark team but he could make other country teams. Bottomline, I think it is okay to have "imported" players on your National team if these "imported" players are actually citizens of the country and not some mercenary players where they are paid and given citizenship to play for the country.
I agree there is a question of balance. Flandi and Eng have been good as sparring partners for the english team but noone really got excited when they reached the All England final as "English" If a player moves during their junior years they will be far more accepted since their new country will play some role in the development. If the player has already reached the top , since as T Gunawan for US or Flandi / Eng for England we may support them but cannot take any real pride in their achievement. Flandi Eng have never played a domestic event and are coached by an indonesian so they have no relation to "Englaish badminton", having said that I wouldn't want to see a pair of their quallity not at a major and its a pity they aren't at the WC. If you were a young player who failed to make the olympics because a pair who had previousley played for another country had gained selction you would be pretty frustrated. Not everyone can be the best, it is the process of striving to improve that is the point, not just the actual success, if you bypass that process for a country by bringing in top players I think you lose something. Whatever rules are brought in to prevent payment there are always going to be players who move for mecenary reasons, i.e. not because they fell out with their own association or have married a foreign person which to me are far more legitimate reasons. Pi Hongyan could win a medal for France,I believe shes been in europe for a number of years so although of asian origin there would be some benefit to euro badminton.
First paragraph, that is only human nature at the beginning. Once those players have been resident for a couple of years and shown comittment, then the public will start warming to them. In terms of domestic events, I agree that it would help for them to play in a few. Probably with different partners as well. That would help a few other aspiring players get a chance to know the quality of world class badminton. 2nd paragraph. Yes, that would be a pity. On the other hand, the imported players have had to show quite a lot of committment in terms of their lives in living in a new country to represent the country. And I would prefer to take the view that the younger player should use the opportunity to strive for greater improvement. One can say that since it is easy to be the top in England, perhaps some determination is lost to move to the next step up the the ladder. (this is only one possible factor). At least a young player should at least, theorectically, have more potential of improving, rather than the older players in the team. In the case of S'pore, their base number of players who can make the grade is actually very small. So therefore, it makes sense to have a bigger pool of 'immigrant players' to fill the gap. Certainly, the junior men's players have been making good progress. I would expect fewer male imports in the future. Note, I used the word 'fewer' because a small population base like S'pore may not continually produce good players of the required standards. I'd rather like to see Flandy and Eng Hian play. If I went back to England, Milton Keynes would definately be on my 'must see' tourist attractions. I might even spend a few days there!
Additionally, I do not see the relevance of the point of an Indonesian coach coaching an Indonesian pair who are now residing and representing England. What if the coach is Korean or Chinese or M'sian? With a player who is Scottish?
Cheung, I agree actually, we should employ foreign coaches, my point was just that the indos have no relation to english badminton since neither their origin (by which I mean where they developed their skills) or their current coach are English. If we had an English coach with foreign player or foreign coach/English player at least there is some tie to the rest of the English playing structure!
Ahh, but since they are representing England now, they can be regarded as English and are part of the playing structure! how about the Scottish player moving to England?
Well at least with Blair he was a good but not top euro under 19 who has then been developed by England, and has certianly benefited from the move in terms of partners and coaches, plus we have seen him move up through the domestic circuit and play domestic county etc.
Many years ago, in the early 80's, there was a young South African runner prevented in participation of running events due to the political situation. (won't mention the name). Her g'father had held a British passport, so the government gave her British citizenship in an extraordinarily short space of time. This person competed for Britain in the Olympics....I think after even less than the two years need by badminton players.
Do Eng Hian/Flandy play in the English National Championships? If not, they should do, and not necessarily together!
I remember the south african runner, it was a big controversy back then! Fla/Eng have not played the nationals or any other event in UK apart from AE, one of them did team up with Archer for the German event which they won but for the big grand prix unless there is injury I can't see them splitting their strength.
.. YES. i do believe it is the right. As importing foreign talent may not be a bad idea. They also get to learn different styles and our locals can learn from them. Foreign talents are also groomed in S'pore so singaporeans should also treat these foreigners as part of our country. These also increases the popularity of the sport thus bringing a sense a popularity to the people.
When there is change, it takes time for it to be accepted especially when the change affects the livelihood of the people. If the change turns out to be for the better, more people will become less critical and objectionable. Singapore is a very small country of 4 million people, many of whom are foreigners, yet it has to depend on the world for its livelihood. Adverse events outside of Singapore hit us hard and unless Singapore changes as quickly enough, it will surely be sucked out of existence! Singapore has to accept globalization and recently signed the FTA with the US, the world's most powerful nation today, even when it knows it will have to open up almost all economic avenues for competition. The last few years have been the most challenging and our leaders are now ready to implement the "Remaking of Singapore" plans necessary for our continued political and economic survival. What has badminton got to with Singapore's scheme of things? It took us some time to realize that to open up Singapore will entail the upgrading of many things to attract foreign talents and foreign investments. With our very own home-grown talents, the base is far too small, so we took the unusual and highly sensitive decision to welcome foreign workers and talents to our shores. We invested, and will continue to invest, in the arts and sports to try to achieve world class standards. I have mentioned some of these in my previous posts. Unless you are of world-class standard, the talents in all of human endeavours, will probably give you a miss. Our real sports success first came from our women Table Tennis team, many of whom are 'imported' from China. Suddenly Singapore became well known in the regional games and subsequently, the international tournaments. Our Chinese girls helped put Singapore on the TT map, raised the standards of local TT and generated a great deal of interest. One of the girls married a Singaporean. She was featured in the quarter-finals of the last Olympics, if my memory serves me right. Yes, there was envy when the "foreign talents" were rewarded with attractive cash winnings from their overseas exploits and from the government for achieving success in the recognized tournaments, such as the Southeast Asian, Asian and Commonwealth Games. As for Badminton, there were a few minor successes for Singapore when Li Li won the Commonwealth Games Ladies' Singles title and Ronald Susilo surprised many to knock out some of the world's best players on his way to the Finals of last year's Singapore Open. Both Li Li and Ronald, were discovered when they were young teenagers and groomed by the SBA. They are now Singapore citizens. Would they have similar opportunities back home? Probably not. Pi Hongyan's case was also cited although she was much older than the Singaporeans when she played for France. To think that she beat Camilla Martin 11-6 and 11-2 at the Korean Open when many of the present Chinese girls found it tough to handle CM is a feather in her cap and that of France! Unintentionally, Singapore is helping to groom international badminton talents in its own small way by importing foreign talents who may have gone to waste if they had remained in their own countries. It is only natural for such countries to develop and invest in their best players, so if such foreign talents are considered second rate during their time, it will be very difficult for them to be in the first team. Not that they have no talent, but, perhaps the time has not come for them to 'blossom' at the right time. By so doing, Singapore is giving such imported talents another chance to fulfil their dreams; is giving local aspirants a chance to hone their skills against the foreign talents in sparring sessions thereby raising standards overall; is giving Singaporeans something to identify with and rally around, especially when international success comes our way; is keeping its people interested in a healthy game; is giving our young aspirants a role model to emulate and this is particularly important when our Sports School, with badminton as one of the selected sports, begins early next year. With a successful and active badminton scene, more sponsors are likely to be more generous and this will help the development of a thriving badminton industry! Think of the multiplier effect - when other countries take more or less the same approach - what impact it will have on world badminton! I believe the positives outweigh the negatives when we allow 'foreign talents" to go global. Therefore I can't but agree with many of the points raised by Cheung.
FYI. The South African girl's name was Zola Budd running bared foot. She and Mary Decker (USA) were 2 of the top distance runners in the world. They collided with each other in the 1984 Olyimpic.
it's not correct ... Ronald is a player at one of the top club in Jakarta before Singapore groomed him.
Loh, very informative about Singapore thank you. Interestingly Denamrk only has a slightly bigger population (just over 5 million I think). I thin importing talent is fine and can be positive I just feel it shouldn't replace countries producing their own players. If switching nationalities becomes more commonplace we will see many asian players moving to Europe. The fact that Flandi/Eng have produced top form while training in England means that Rexy is a good coach of top mens doubles players and that the facilities available at MK are good. It in no way reflects on the weakness of the domestic circuit , junior squads, other coaches or clubs/county structure since the indos have had nothing to do with that. I think that is the danger in gaining success with an imported player who is ready made. If we want to see widespread moving of players then we should abandon country names on shirts at grand prix etc and move to international club team event. The countries who could pay the best or offer best facilities could attract the best players and then those players could go back to playing for their country at Olympics / Thomas Cup. I don't think any of us are ready for that!
