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  1. #1
    vince poon
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    Default badminton is snobbish sport!

    I am not an anti-badminton player, I myself play 3 times a week and fully enjoy the sport. Let me explained why I think badminton is a snobbish sport.

    Back 10 years ago I consider myself a very good badminton player because I have make it to provincial 3 years in a row. To make it to provincial you have to win two tournaments in a row, one is local tournament (play against different town), and if you win the local you go to zone (or city) and if you win the zone tournament you go to provincial. After my graduation, I move to the city for school, I didn't try out for a badminton team because I wasn't really into it, so I try to play at public facility. At the public badminton facility, I wasn't really welcome there because I was new and no one considers me good enough because I don't have a jump smash and good footwork. So all the regular player there won't play you unless you extremely good, or you look like a good player, so if you are new comer they likely to cut in front of you although you been waiting over an hour to get on court. So I got very frustrated and quit badminton for over 6 years. You see, I was a decent badminton player still I am not welcome to play, what happen to people who just pick up a racquet where are they going to play if they are not welcome? In basketball you are welcome to play no matter what skill level you are or how tall you are because you could still have a good game in basketball but in badminton double, one bad player could ruin the whole game so we tend to be snobbish whom we play with. My theory is -- the reason badminton is not so popular because we don't embrace new player, we only embrace player that are better than us because they give us a better challenge. So how do we embrace a new comer in badminton without him or her ruin our game?

  2. #2
    holst
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    Vince,

    Which country was this?

  3. #3
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    Fortunately I don't encounter the problem you mentioned at all in this region of the world (Hong Kong). In fact, I always play with people with varying skills level (some with better skills than myself, and some are junior players). Of course, there will be more fun if the skills level of all players are similar.

  4. #4
    MYSRH
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    I never experience that before too, I have a lot of friends whose level below mine but they never have difficulties playing with anybody, even people with good levels ask them to play so they can improve their play.

    Anyway, I just want to mention that it is not quite a good idea to bring up personal experience and try to tell everybody about it.
    Perhaps you just need to look into yourself too. No offense ok!
    I understand for what you said, I, too, play at public facilities a lot, and all the player there always say you must get into the court as quick as possible before others cut into the line, because there are many players wnat to play too.

  5. #5
    MYSRH
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    Default RE: badminton is NOT snobbish sport!

    I never experience that before too, I have a lot of friends whose level below mine but they never have difficulties playing with anybody, even people with good levels ask them to play so they can improve their play.

    Anyway, I just want to mention that it is not quite a good idea to bring up personal experience and try to tell everybody about it.
    Perhaps you just need to look into yourself too. No offense ok!
    I understand for what you said, I, too, play at public facilities a lot, and all the player there always say you must get into the court as quick as possible before others cut into the line, because there are many players wnat to play too.

  6. #6
    Alvin
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    Default RE: badminton is NOT snobbish sport!

    Well,it's not so bad in Malaysia.i'd just entered the badminton association of a state yesterday and the people there did welcome me althought some of them were shoeing some sour faces.well,the training there is so tough that i got muscle ache all over today.

  7. #7
    g2k
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    i'm from the US and kinda agree with what vince said.
    i think badminton is a sport hard for newcomers to get into.
    first there are not many places to play, then there're usually not enough courts to accommodate everyone.
    don't blame the experienced player, of course they rather play w/ someone their own level. (it's more fun, less boring)
    bottomline is that badminton is a much more complicated sport than any other popular sport (like basketball).
    it takes a long time to get good at. but once you pass that, it's definitely addictive.

    one thing that intriques me is that baseball is also a complicated sport, it takes time to get good at, and not many people play it either; but people(including me) love to watch it and it's so successful here in the US. To me a badminton game is just(if not more) as exciting to watch and play. Besides, it's fast action too; and americans love fast action and high scoring stuff. So I don't understand.

    i think for badminton to flourish, US is a good place to promote it. Because once americans starts to watch and play it,
    big sponsors will definitely come in. But in order to promote it, you gotta have more places to play and have people willing to
    welcome and teach newcomers. It will be hard, but very do-able.

  8. #8
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    Never understood about baseball being so popular. It's all stop and start yet why do so many Americans love it?
    At least in American football there seem to be more tatics but I still get annoyed with the breaks.

    With badminton court time so limited(and expensive in some places), and the nature of the sport being limited to a max of four people, a discrepancy of standard shows up much more( than in a team of 6 or more people) and hence enjoyment is compromised).

    I have to agree that when I was learning the game more, people did appear to snobbish to me BUT this was NOT isolated to badminton. It happened in other sports, quite notably tennis.

    It doesn;t happen now. I've had some pretty friendly encounters in different countries. Maybe it's because I'm much better than before and can hold my own in most games. I did get a refusal from an Australian club when I rang the secretary(he just didn;t want to know) but he hadn;t seen me play. When I played in another club in that same city, a guy said I should go down to the original club that I had rung to!! Told him about the refusal and just regarded it as their loss.

    Obviously, I have to be sensible and not expect to play with National players regularly because I'm just not up to that standard and nobody gains.

  9. #9
    vince poon
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    Default RE: badminton is NOT snobbish sport!

    I am not talking about playing with FRIENDs with different skill level, of course is fun to play with friends because you can trash talk them without feeling being hurt. You telling me if you a good player with two equal good player, you would let a new comer play with you who miss half of the stroke, and if he/she does hit the shuttlecock over the net it would be a perfect setup for a kill you would still welcome that new comer, not just once but occasionally. I am not talking pady-cake badminton, I talking about skill levels that the rally consist mostly of smashes. I am glad you don't have the same experience I had in badminton but I think you have too much fun on court to notice that there are some player who are left out. I live in Canada, the place I play, people consider me to be quit good now so I don't have the same problem before because I have improve and I still see new comer who play just for fun having trouble getting on court, maybe it just my area, I am glad that the area you play, everybody is being treaty equally regardless if he/she could serve or not.

  10. #10
    vince poon
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    I live in Canada, and I don't think is the country or people is the problem, it is the area I play is the problem. I play in public facility, there are almost no regulations. I do see many complain and some time very serious confrontation between regular player and newcomers.

  11. #11
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    Default RE: badminton is NOT snobbish sport!

    You seem to be stating two different situations
    .
    First u talk about players in who the rallies consist of smashes and are of equal ability with the newcomer(of near equal ability) being frozen out. Then u talk about newcomers(who may not even now how to serve) getting into trouble on court and these people only play for fun (I assume that these are players who do not play competitive badminton) and these people are frozen out.


    So which group are u referring to?

    Which part of Canada(city) are u living in?

    I thought Toronto was friendly. Vancouver was more difficult (but this was 10 yrs ago).

  12. #12
    vince poon
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    Default RE: badminton is NOT snobbish sport!

    I am not really referring to any groups, just newcomers who lack the standard skills or doesn't look like a good player being frozen out. In general the newcomer that lack the skill is more likely to be frozen out than player with skill. It is difficult for newcomer to fit in especially if they just find out badminton is a fun sport. Of course is not so bad in other place where there are plenty of courts for everybody, but the place I play, occasionally there are more people waiting than people playing because of limit court availability.

    Mysrh is saying "badminton is NOT snobbish sport", he/she claims to play with all players with different skill level, so it a question for Mysrh. And the question is "Since Mysrh is not a snobbish player, will he/she willing to play with people who are just starting to learn how to serve after waiting a long time to get on court?" I just don't see competitve players who waited for 1/2 hour or so for a court willing to let a much lower skill level player ruin their game.

    I live in Calgary, Alberta. In all my badminton experience, I find that there are direct link between snobbishness and court availability.

  13. #13
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    Default RE: badminton is NOT snobbish sport!

    Then the problem is not the sport being snobbish but the lack of facilities and if there is any snobbishness, it is the people, not the sport.

    But I take your point. If we don't have more facilities, then how can the regular players get their games? And people who do sport do so for different reasons.
    The person who plays badminton to maintains their cardiovascular fitness would lose an aspect of their game.

    That's interesting Calgary has a lack of courts. I would have expected more interest with the National squad based there (are they still there) and the World Championships being there (1985) (wow, that's a long time ago)

  14. #14
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    Vince and others:
    This subject can't be explained by one answer as it has many causes. I play in a club where i see situation similar to vince. I think i'm at the top 10% level in my club so i usually have no problem playing with other good players but i do on my own cognition play with bottom 10% players to encourage the sport of badminton and hope they come back because everyone pays the same fee to play. I also know numerous mid-level badminton players quit the game because of inequitable treatment they received at clubs and public recreation facilites. I can easy see popularity of badminton doubles if we can capture back those lost players. Although not a guarantee solution, I can only offer some reasons and suggestions:

    1. lack of courts can lead to fierce competition for court space and time. Here is where the club organizer has to do his/her part. Most of the time, I see the club organizers are the agressor(s) in taking court time. It's sad but true.

    2. Advices for the less skilled. Watch and learn, and ask question how to play instead of wanting to pair up with a skill player right away. An unskill player won't learn anything by playing with skill players in games (unless his/her partner is a willing coach) Better yet, invest yourself 50 to 100$ for some basic training before playing at a club. In doubles, it is very dangerous to pair up with a non-skill player as he/she chases the shuttlecock everywhere without knowing where his/her partner is. Results can be physical injury from body collision. Another thing in doubles, unskill players tend to swing at all flying shuttlecock. Skill players with expensive rackets can't compete with a 10$ steel rackets in a racket-racket contact. I lost a few good rackets myself. So there is justifible reasons for good players unwilling to play with less skilled players: safety and economics.

    3. I think setting up a ladder is a good way to resolve most of these problem. However, most organizers won't bother because it consume time and he/she rather be playing. In my city, only two clubs have ladder and they are private very high end fitness clubs wit fulltime staffs who do these things.

    Well, that's my thought for the moment. I hope i didnt offended anyone.

  15. #15
    vince poon
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    Default RE: badminton is NOT snobbish sport!

    I believe we do have two private clubs, one is Glencoe and the other is Winter club. I heard it cost $10,000 to be a member but if you are really good and young, the government will pay for your member fee. That the only thing I know about badminton in Calgary, I didn't know the National Team is based here.

    The place I play is public facility and the city is growing by the second, so I expect it will get busier everywhere in Calgary.

  16. #16
    vince poon
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    That is very good pratical suggestions, because the place I play might implement ladder playing and also get a organizer so everybody is treated equally. The place I play, there are many complaints about regular players shuting out other (I am a regular now and it take me over 5 months of playing until I am welcome), so we have a meeting recently to deal with fairness. So far the only implementation is players only allow to play best of 3, no more but some people still abuse the system and always play the 3rd games and it could last over an hour. Next meeting I will suggest best of 3 or 40 minutes including warmup, what ever come first. So hopefully the place I play will get better for all people who hold a badminton racquet.

    My advice to people who love playing the game but get shut out is to complaints and complaints your ass off, the facility surely will make chances when they found out there is a problem. Don't let other make you quit the sport you love, you have much of right to play as any other guy. Badminton is a fun sport, long live badminton.

  17. #17
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    Default RE: badminton is snobbish sport!

    An hour of court time for a match is amazingly long for a club night. But how many courts do u have?
    Why do people play best of three games?
    With this piece of information, i can now understand why people feel aggreived at club night.

    In one place, we play to 21 points. A good game will take 35 mins. Quite satisfactory. In other places, it may be one game to 15 points. This is more common and I have seen this in different clubs in different countries. Only if it is a really good game do people go to 3 sets but it is a rarity. When I refer to a good game, not just a jump smashes but tight serving, little pushes at the net, net shots, being able to kill a net shot(or anticipate net shots) even if it is 6 inches above the net, clears that can go right to the back of the court, driving off opponents smashes, rallies and rallies and more rallies.

    The 21 point rule and swop ends at 11 points may be an idea to try. It is quite reasonable.

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