Training recreational players (what to do)

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ein_roboter, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. ein_roboter

    ein_roboter Regular Member

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    Hi everyone,

    The majority of my club consists of recreational players (ranging from 'having just started' to a more intermediate level). For this group, we are planning to provide a couple of training courses. We've never offered this to this group before, so it's quite exciting but also important to keep this large group happy and motivated (as our small club is struggling a bit).

    Some points:
    - As it's a trial, we just keep it simple and start with a minimum of 6 players for 5 lessons
    - Training will take an hour (?)
    - If these training lessons receive a positive response, we will definitely continue with it

    There are however some gripes:
    - I'll be the one that's going to train them, but I haven't trained recreational players before (only small kids. I do play in a league however)
    - The recreational players have adopted their own technique (and some are playing and using it for many years!)
    - How to keep such a group motivated during a training
    - Physical training/endurance training is probably out of the question. I really have to keep it simple, as they normally play games against their club mates as a way of recreation

    So my question is: what can I do for them / mean to them?

    Some ideas
    - easier footwork skills: most of the recreational players have a very bad technique in walking backwards. Incidents and injuries are bound to happen.
    - the 'dab': letting the trainees use their wrist- and finger power more. Many of them are using too much of a swing, resulting in hitting the net
    - Position on court for the double and the mix: although I think this might be a tad too difficult

    Lovely people of BadmintonCentral.com; do you have any more tips for me? Other ideas? Additions? Pros/Cons? Experience with this same situation?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    I'm not a coach. What would I find interesting if I were your student with only 5 hours in total?

    I'd like you not to try to correct all my techniques that could take a long time (and would destroy my games initially). Instead, teach me something that is relatively easy to incorporate into my games, but most other untrained recreational players don't know, or can't do. Something that I've a high chance to use. This helps me to win more games, and have more fun first.

    Arouse their interests first. When they're motivated to improve, then you help them improve/change their techniques, starting from most important one.

    Here are some ideas along that line of thinking (Doubles only), depending on your students' levels -

    1. Front player needs to follow the shuttle, and adjust distance from the net.
    2. If receiver goes back to take a flick serve, his partner should immediately follow to the front on the same side as his receiving partner.
    3. Use of mid-court, and center.
    4. More attacking/flat clears, instead of the high clears.
    5. Net kills and depending on level of the group, brush
    6. Concepts/requirements in serve/receive (first 2 shots) - placement, variations, take it high etc.
    7. Use blocks (straight/cross) to defend against smashes, instead of lifts.
    8. For rear player, hop back to middle after each shot, esp. after drop shots.
    9. Front player learn to help rear player to cut off flat drives.
    10. Use of peripheral vision to help in shot selection.
    :
    The better you know your small group of students, the better your choices would be. Let us know how things turn out.
     
  3. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    You're right about the physical element, recreational players aren't going to be too keen on a hard core regime.

    You should make sure they warm up properly.

    Start them off doing some drills, keep your eye on the players and see how effective they are at each shot. This'll help you figure out what to teach.

    For most recreational players, teaching good lifts and clears will help a lot. Many recreational players can't clear the full court consistently.

    For doubles, don't worry too much about positioning, but give them some information on shot choice.

    Teach the backhand serve and grip. Not many recreational players will know about this. I've seen recreational players try to imitate our backhand serves, but are unable to do so.
     
  4. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    I would say training recreational players and training kids should be more or less the same. The start is the same :
    basic footwork
    grip
    body movement
    hitting point (always too low for recreational players)
    And then diving the classes according to shots : one class for clear, one class for lift, one class for drops, one class for net drop, one class for drives. Then you have your 5 lessons! (Oh no, I forgot the smash, and the defence, and...many others!)
     
  5. alien9113

    alien9113 Regular Member

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    1 hour for 5 persons is really short. Each person probably just have at most 10 minutes. What can they learn from that 10 minutes? If it's extended to 2 hours, it might more meaningful, even if it's learning how to net or lift properly.

    1 hour might be more than sufficient to focus on footwork and some light drills, e.g. footwork + forehand and backhand net (as it can drain the stamina of recreational players).

    If they want to improve without compromising all their habits, then I would suggest to go simple first.

    • Half court front-back footwork
    • Side to side footwork
    • Forehand and backhand netting
    • Forehand and backhand lifting
    • Forehand pushes and drives

    That should be sufficient for them to cover the court better and allow them to execute various shots better, but won't up their game by one notch, possibly by just a quarter to half a notch. :p

    If they are much more serious about improving, then it will be best to break all their bad habits and make the group training even smaller (e.g. 2 persons to 1 hour training), or even coaching them one-to-one. Then you can explain to them how it will affect their games and whether they are prepared to lose before winning.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    The main message is, keep it simple and don't expect too much.

    One thing about recreational adult learners is that they like to practice one technique and then move on to another technique pretty quickly. You will have to spot when to move on and rotate things around.
     
  7. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Contrary to what other people say, I think this training is completely different to training kids or other types of training you may have done before. Why?
    1. Its with adults: they are not going to believe they are actually capable of some things.
    2. Its only 5 sessions: You cannot possibly fix bad technique or fitness or footwork in 5 hours.
    3. You have the chance to extend it beyond 5 hours if people like it. This means tackling the big things first.

    My goal, if I were coaching: have everyone playing a higher standard of badminton by the end. Not good badminton, not even getting the basics right. But a better standard.

    Here is my recommendation:
    1. Keep the goals broad - remembering what these people will feel happy to have achieved. If you can improve their power overhead in 1 hour, thats something they can make use of and will enjoy knowing and will benefit them forever. If you do footwork, they will never practice and it will never sink in during a 1 hour session.
    2. Stay away from footwork or fitness. You can give pointers as you go or during demonstrations or when you correct people, but you do not have enough time to get people fit, or to make much of a dent in their footwork.
    3. For each exercise you do, make sure you have a clear progression of very simple, then more complicated, then intermediate, and then advanced. With most people, they will manage the first two drills but never move on to the next two. Some people will be really good at certain drills. Make sure they are challenged!
    4. Focus more on doing the drills, than on correcting mistakes. A few minor corrections is always good, but do not introduce something brand new and expect it to be perfect - you don't have time to make it stick. You just need to get them practising and doing things they haven't done before, but that they can achieve.
    5. Finally, my suggested 5 lessons are:

    Overheads: try to fix bad grips, but get them using their wrists more and being relaxed to hit harder. Contact me if you want any ideas for this session. The goal is to have everyone hitting at least 1 metre further on their clears, and hence more powerfully. Also include drop shots in this session - most people hit drop shots too slow. Show them that the drop shots need to be faster to be more effective - this is an easy change that gets people playing better badminton with their existing skills.

    Net: How to play net shots and net kills - most people don't know. Go for cross court net shots as an advanced option.

    Positioning: How to position yourselves in doubles and mixed doubles when attacking and defending. Despite having played for years, most people don't know. This also introduces questions from people about strange situations. People will really benefit from this kind of Q&A session. You can play some games to try and get the hang of it.

    Serve and Return: Teach people to serve better and to hit a couple of easy non-lift returns e.g. how to push to the side and to play a net shot return. The improved serving and the better returns really will improve peoples games.

    Tactics: Teach people to think tactically e.g. if these were a pair, how should they play? Who is strongest at the back or at the net? Which opponent should they attack most? Should they use lifted defence or blocked defence? Which serve is best to start the rally against each player.

    My suggestions above are based on making a big impact on recreational players ability to play good badminton. You cannot go in and teach the basics - because they will either think they already know, or they will think they can't do it. So instead, try to enhance important areas of their game. After 5 sessions, if a player serves and returns better, hits harder smashes, attempts net kills, plays more tactically, and has a better understanding of doubles positioning, then I think you will have made a very positive transformation, but one that will last!

    I hope some of these suggestions are useful. I have done a lot of coaching with club standard players, and the above things are what I find are most effective and important to learn in the short term.

    Cheers!
     
  8. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Yeah I think footwork is too much for them. Footwork takes practise, time, and patience to build, and that's not something you really have. If you want to introduce anything to them, introduce the idea of the split step. Simply readying themselves would make a good change - just them having a readiness to move.

    I think grips might be a good idea, even using the marking method. You don't have time in 5 weeks to correct over and over again, so maybe supply some cheap grips and mark them with tipex to keep people aware of it themselves.

    I think smash is a waste of time for this time frame and level.

    With regards to net, I think crosscourt net shots might be a push. I think teaching people that they can take a net shot from a high racket contact point would be a good idea. That they don't have to turn their racket horizontally and wait for it, but rather can take it from above. I think kills and pushes will come naturally from that.

    I think that element will also help with return of serve.

    Backhand grip, with serve as I previously mentioned, but also with back hand lifts and net shots. For recreational players, that are more likely to play doubles, it might be ideal to encourage them not to play backhands from the rear court. I see lots of recreational players try this, and it doesn't go amazing well.

    On that note - who should take what shot. Another big hiccup for recreational players. Largely because players try to take backhands in the middle of the court.
     
  9. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    You have some good ideas! Some comments:

    The split step is a tricky one. I have tried to teach this to club players before, and there are very mixed results over short time frames. It will be too much and too confusing for some. However, I really think the idea of teaching people to be ready is a good one. Covering what a good "ready" stance looks like and feels like is a really good idea and probably make people feel they have more time when they play and can get shots more easily. Its a quick change that anyone can do, regardless of current skill, and it will always help - definitely worth mentioning!

    Whether people also learn the split step would depend on the student. Some will enjoy it and really benefit, some people will not benefit.

    In my experience, changing grips is opening a can of worms. Sometimes its necessary, but its tough to do in a short time frame (not impossible, but requires experience). I think teaching grips as you suggest is only good for the backhand shots and for people who CAN do the correct grip, but keep on slipping and going back to the wrong one. It will provide them a good way of reminding themselves about what is correct.

    It probably depends on the group though - be wary of changing forehand grips: if anything will knock their confidence, its being shown a new better way of holding a racket, one that results in them being unable to do anything. Whilst this may be necessary to change in the long run, when you only have a short time to help a student, I believe changing the grip is usually the wrong choice if it leads to them lacking in confidence. You have to strike that balance between helping them do what is "correct", and actually enhancing their game here and now to allow them to grow as a player.

    Why do you think improving smashes is a waste of time?
    Its easy to add power to a players overhead (even when they have the wrong grip) in an hour. My experience is that it can be a real "wow" moment for players, and immediately gives them new confidence and enjoyment when they can hit the shuttle harder after a couple of exercises. This is a great motivational improvement that also enhances their play... even if the technique is far from perfect. I suspect what you mean is that no significant technique change can be made for smashing, which is true. But small changes can lead to big improvements.

    Is there any particular reason you think its not worth focusing on smashes? I am curious to hear your thoughts. Bearing in mind - I am expecting most of the players can smash, but the smash will be weak or leave them out of balance.

    Regarding net: I agree some players will not be able to cope with cross net shots, but even a very basic concept of how to play it will really help players! I am always surprised by how bad club players are at very basic net shots: they need to be shown how to take it from below the net, because most of them are not quick enough to take it earlier. However, your idea of showing them how to come from above is a very good one as it will make them more confident and more daring at the net - which will increase their own expectations greatly!

    Cheers!
     
  10. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    @Matt. Spot on!! If I were in that 5 sessions you design, I'd be very happy. :)
     
  11. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    With just 1 hour to spare, skip the warm up time. Make sure they know they're expected to have warmed up (15 minutes or more, heart rate up, sweating) just prior to the start of the session.
     
  12. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    [MENTION=47032]MSeeley[/MENTION]
    With regards to smashes

    The smash requires a lot from the player to execute well. Many players instead perform a sharp hit that behaves more like a drive. The issues with focusing on the smash are:
    - Many players, especially at recreational levels, do not have the practise or consistency to play the smash often
    (You'll get a lot of netted shots, a lot of flat shots)
    - It requires good positioning to play a smash, especially at lower levels; they want to be behind the shuttle with time
    (You therefore require good movement, often efficient movement to get to the shuttle early enough)
    - As a smash is by nature, a fast shot, it's difficult to communicate effectively how to bring the wrist round and over properly to generate the angle with a demonstration
    (You'll get a lot of clears... a whole lot of clears...)
    - It's tiring
    (They're recreational afterall! They're likely to put a lot of energy into their smashes, because they won't have a good gauge for it.)

    I honestly believe that teaching the drop is the better decision. A fast drop is a very effective shot. By teaching a preference for angle rather than power, it develops the technique. Players will soon understand how they generate the smash naturally. They'll want to play that drop faster and faster, and boom, eventually they'll smash.

    With regards to grips:
    I can see what you're saying, but I think teaching the thumb grip is pretty useful. Seeing as it's also useful in drives - a pretty common recreational player shot - it's pretty useful for them all around. With forehand grips it is pretty difficult. When someone new starts playing recreationally we tend to start them off with the forehand grips so they build up their technique well from the get-go.

    With regards to the net:
    I don't see many people have huge issues taking the shuttle below the net, I see lots of people let it drop far too low for my liking, but they play a playable shot back. In fact, I see them waiting for it to drop, and I'm thinking 'Nooooo take it above the net you had loads of height'

    With regards to readiness:
    Hmm, it doesn't even really have to be a step, it can just be raising their heels up a little to prepare to get the next shot. I see a common error in players where they're caught flat footed and can't reach shots as a result.

    [MENTION=54]raymond[/MENTION]
    That would be preferable. (And maybe a bit wishful :D)
     
    #12 Charlie-SWUK, Nov 15, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  13. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Thanks for your explanation. I agree regarding thumb grip and net shots. Definitely makes sense to cover them that way. I disagree about smashes.

    But then again I wouldn't actually talk smashes but power overhead in general as it applies to clears and smashes. So perhaps we actually agree. Fast drop shots are excellent for technique development but my assumption is that these players will not actually progress much beyond what is covered in the coaching... Hence I am not sure they would actually ever achieve that faster and faster drop shot.

    I disagree with some of your points. It sounds to me as if You are talking about perfecting smashes when you talk about getting behind them and not hitting them flat etc. That cannot be the point when dealing with club players for a limited time in a small number of lessons as its too much to get right. The goal is improving what they currently have.

    In half an hour I can easily get a group if 6 hitting considerably harder with much less effort by utilising their wrists better. But that's because I have experienced a really good sequence of drills for achieving this. The point of the coaching is not to demonstrate and have them copy it so its correct, but rather to design the exercises and use tools so that they actually end up doing it correctly themselves if they follow the sequence of exercises.

    The smash is a very important part of recreational play and it is important to help players to improve their existing skills in this area. But then again you are always limited to improving what they can currently do, rather than doing anything significantly different. So with one player its to increase the power in their smash. With another its to help them clear full court. With another I may teach a fast drop shot. I guess all i am really saying is you havr to do somethimg to increase their power overhead unless they can clear easily full court. Them maybr thr focus could shift to other things as you suggest.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Its nice to get a fresh perspective. I am co stantly trying to improve my coaching and I mainly deal with club players. The fast drop is the main part of my coaching with many players.
     
  14. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Agree with Matt re the importance of learning first the fast drop. From there, you can gradually build on the right techniques (timing, finger power, pronation, getting behind the shuttle, etc), then you can easily work up to more power for smash.
     
  15. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I agree with building up power, but I think this is better done with the clears as you say Matt. I think that trying to build up power with smashes will lead to a lot of bad techniques, such as people keeping their whole arm tense throughout the exercise.

    As Visor also says, I believe that building up the technique to hit the shuttle downwards more and then adding power later is an effective method of teaching. As I said in my previous post, when people have this downward stroke mastered, they can start adding power naturally, and that'll start them producing smashes.

    It gives them something to progress into after you've given them coaching.

    I doubt I'm as experienced as you are in coaching Matt, I've only been doing it for around a year but we have a good head coach. We always teach kids the clear first, then the net shot (by making them clear, and then run in and lunge to retrieve a net shot), then the drop shot. While recreational players aren't juniors, I think the principle applies well; teach them to produce the angles, let the power come later.
     
  16. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I see your point regarding smashes. I agree - adding power is best done by training clears as its much less likely to result in a continuation of bad habits. That, combined with the fast drop training as you suggest, is certainly going to be a good combination!

    On a side not:
    Unfortunately I find that with adults you need to produce results more quickly than with kids. With kids, if they can't clear full court, then thats ok. Get the technique correct, assume they will play the game and continue to train for a long time to come, and in the end you know they will grow stronger, more coordinated, and learn to hit full court.

    However, adults need something different usually. They already have the requisite strength to hit the shuttle full court, but lack the technique, timing and coordination. Furthermore, they KNOW that they should be able to do it... it just complicates things when you have to deal with their expectations which are wildly different to that of young players! The coaching for these players has to focus on teaching them the correct timing and coordination, even though the overall technique may be wrong. With juniors its so much easier - you just make sure they do it correctly, and then let the timing and coordination develop over time gradually.

    The other thing that is difficult for me as a coach to these players, is that realistically, unless they are bought into the idea of having regular lessons over a period of time, their progress will virtually never be as good as for junior players. So the concept of hitting the fast drop shot... If I taught this to a junior, they would experiment, they would start hitting softer sometimes, harder sometimes, and varying the angle. Therefore they learn the whole repertoire of shots. An adult will probably not progress in the same way, they are unlikely to experiment as much or progress in the same way.

    Perhaps this is just my experience, and is not applicable everywhere. However, I feel there is generally more pressure in these short, non regular sessions, with experienced adult players, to try and show them something that they can do now that will actually stick with them. If a skill interferes their existing technique, its just so difficult to change.

    This is however, a contrast to teaching something like the thumb grip, where players are typically quite weak - new skills are often picked up quickly and retained well, because there are no existing habits to interfere with the technique.

    Thanks both for your input!
     
    #16 MSeeley, Nov 16, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
  17. ein_roboter

    ein_roboter Regular Member

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    Oh wow, thank you so much everybody for your replies! Really awesome of you all and I'm very grateful.

    If our recreational players really want to achieve more, they can always join the training for the league players from a professional trainer. Problem is that there is a huge gap in their level of play/technique to the league players. There are three large 'islands' in our club, consisting of the junior players, recreational players (biggest group) and league players. Unfortunately there isn't really a bonding between the groups, but we're working on that (different story). A lot of the recreational players asked for training, so we are starting this up for them. The idea of 'building towards a better standard' what MSeeley nicely said, is exactly what I had in mind and the main goal. I've observed our recreational players from time to time and it will be extremely difficult to correct their techniques.

    Thanks to the input I received from you guys, I already may have some plans and goals for the training sessions:
    - Improve the power of their overhead shots
    - Defensive play; blocking smashes instead of hitting them back
    - Only 'teaching' the backhand-grip (using the thumb behind the grip); it can raise awareness to 'other grips'
    - Net shots; below the tape and above the tape. Perhaps some excercises in just blocking the shuttle, followed by driving and finally the net kill.
    - Introducing the split-jump isn't such a bad idea, so hopefully they're open to it and (even better) can adjust to it. I've seen way too many players walking backwards, with their entire body facing the net. It makes me cringe, as I witnessed a couple of falls from time to time and even an occasional achilles tendon injury.
    - Fast drop; as others mentioned here that it can build up to other techniques
    - Keeping it simple

    Regarding the warming-up: fortunately that's not a big issue. For the recreational players that's their own responsibility and here at my club they take good care of it.

    I'm always open for more suggestions and I'll definitely keep you posted for the updates here at my club regarding the training for recreational players
     
  18. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Sounds like you have a good plan! Remember to ask the players if there is anything they want to cover in later sessions! I find that players who have played a long time without teaching always have some interesting questions and scenarios that they benefit from having explained/corrected.

    Good luck!
     

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