Mixed - Side/Side or Front/Back (defensive)

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by BaddyBunny, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. BaddyBunny

    BaddyBunny Regular Member

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    l stand? Thanks!
     
    #1 BaddyBunny, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
  2. Arrowken

    Arrowken Regular Member

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    If you anticipate a smash from the opponent, you have no choice (in any doubles combination) but to go sides. For mixed, the guy sometimes takes on the job of covering more of the court (especially if his forehand side is in the middle) and therefore he stands closer to the middle.

    If you insist on staying front back, theres nothing you can do but hope that the opponent smashes directly towards you, and that you have enough time to block/drive it back. If they choose to smash sides then bad luck..
     
  3. lordrogue

    lordrogue Regular Member

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    If the skill gap is huge and the girl can't defend a smash for her life she can stay in front and the guy covers the whole court while defending smashes. But it's more like a quick fix for tournament play, it's not tactically sound.
    What you actually learn is side side - defending and front back - attacking.
     
  4. sebZeroToHeroes

    sebZeroToHeroes Regular Member

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    Front-back makes it too difficult for the guy to cover the whole court. In MS it's already difficult to defend against a smash a comparatively smaller court + in XD the guy smashing doesn't have to worry as much as defense and can be more aggressive in his smash.

    The main differences in this case in XD compared to MD or WD are:
    * The guy covers the direct (straight) line of the smash, and the girl goes cross-court (so that the shuttle has slowed down more if he targets the girl, which is a tactics often used in XD)
    * If you take back the offensive (a short defense or a mi-court low defense forcing them to lift the shuttle), the girl always come back to the front and the guy takes the back
     
  5. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    I agree. I do the same in XD, because the stronger girl in my team plays the WS at league games.

    IMO this static front-back formation is just a common mistake to keep everything simple. Some people are unable to cope doubles positioning. XD has a few exceptions, which makes it more complicated. A good player will aim always the sidelines. Impossible to cover.
     
  6. BaddyBunny

    BaddyBunny Regular Member

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    #6 BaddyBunny, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
  7. sebZeroToHeroes

    sebZeroToHeroes Regular Member

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    The girl goes to the side (like she would in WD), but on the opposite side from the attacker.

    This is basically true as long as the guy in the team isn't way above in strength (and able to win on his own basically). And it teaches the girl to return smashes from guys, which may be difficult in the beginning, but will help her improve in the long run.
     
  8. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    That's exactly the way it should be done. However it takes a lot of practise until the movement "girl always goes to cross court smash position" can be done quickly and consistently, so for me this is something that defines an advanced XD. The basic defense position is to move side-by-side like you would in a normal MD or WD match, leaving aside the cross-court orientation of the girl. Although the girl might be the weak spot for the attacker, I will nevertheless raise the chances to defend the attacking shot.

    The worst thing you can do is to remain in a front-back attacking position all the time. It's so easy for just a remotely advanced opponent to either target the sides of the court (which leaves the defending guy without any chance) or to hit a steep angled (half-)smash directly towards the defending girl in the front. You don't need to hit that shot very hard to make it impossible for the girl to return a controlled shot.

    Assuming that you have a match between two XD pairs who are pretty much on the same level, it will be the pair with the better defense positioning who will win the match.
     
  9. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    Arg. I'm having flashbacks of trying to play mixed :(
     
  10. BaddyBunny

    BaddyBunny Regular Member

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    How about front-back when doing a clear and the women stays cross court from the clear, but still stays in the front? Either that or always standing in the front at the backhand side when lifting? Thanks!
     
  11. sebZeroToHeroes

    sebZeroToHeroes Regular Member

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    The basic idea behind doing it side-by-side is that each player only has to cover half the court. As long as you rely on a single player covering the full court, it will be very difficult for them (because a double's court is very wide).
     
  12. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Lets be very clear, remaining front and back all the time is a mistake for one obvious reason:
    the female player (even when cross court) will not have time to defend against cross court smashes
    the male player cannot cover both the straight and the cross court smash

    Therefore, only the male player can defend a smash and he must pick which side to defend. The other side is left unguarded.

    On the contrary, if the female player takes up a cross court defensive position (side by side), then all the court is covered.

    So - why on earth would you remain front and back? There is NO disadvantage to defending side-by-side, and there are SOOOOOOOO many problems with remaining front and back...

    Lets take this even further... the female player is responsible, when attacking, for covering all net shots, AND all cross court drives and pushes (but not straight drives and pushes).

    This means when the man smashes straight, the woman must cover all cross court drives, and all slow net shots. The man must cover all straight pushes and drives. Therefore, the woman, in order to cover the cross court drives, must be stood back from the net, and slightly on the opposite side to their male partner... which is basically the same position she should be defending from - back from the net, and on opposite side to male partner (cross court from shuttle).

    So there you have it: in mixed "front and back" doesn't even happen EVER. A slight exaggeration perhaps - front and back as you would see it in mens or womens doubles is very rare though, and even then only at advanced level - which you don't have to worry about yet.
     
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  13. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    You have been given so much advice, all of them presenting good arguments telling basically the same thing: It is just plain wrong to always remain in a front-back position!

    Question for me is - why do you so much want to make this always-front-back work somehow? Where do you see the advantages of it?
     
  14. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Exactly! I agree!
     
  15. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Partner: "Do you want to take front or back?"
    Me: "Neither, I'd rather we rotate properly"
    Partner: "I don't know how to do that
    Every time.
     
  16. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    I played a few years ago at university sports badminton. After some poor warm up with a weak girl, I decided to play with her a doubles game. Before the game started she said: "We must have a good tactic they are good. What do you recommend front-back or side by side?" * double-facepalm
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Well, if she's weak, as in lack of power. Then this is probably the only time to tell her to stay up there (and hope she can play net well and not give half court lifts... ;)) to handle the front, while you cover everything else.
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This is just common sense. It's not about a guy and girl on court. It's about who is the stronger partner on the court.

    If you have a girl who is a stronger player than the guy, it will make sense for her to cover more of the court. If you have a girl who can't play, don't take the game seriously.

    If you have a guy who can't play, don't take the game seriously!
     
  19. baddiebaddie

    baddiebaddie Regular Member

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    Pretty much. I'm a girl and I play mixed, usually against guys. The first time I took up the sport, I was told by someone to "stay in the front" which I thought was the stupidest advice ever because I like the back court. Anyway, I can do the front and the back but I prefer the back. I have played XD with a guy who likes the front and is absolutely useless with any other formation or knowing when to go side to side, or which parts of the court to cover.

    If my partner moves, I move to cover what he can't cover. I've had lots of guys smash at me but I do a lot of drive drills to get my reflexes in good shape and I can return about 90% of what is thrown at me, smash-wise, by men. After how many thousands of sets of badminton I've played in my life, I develop that second sense of knowing where the ball is going based on racket position and trajectory, so I'm usually able to get it if I'm in my waiting split step position.

    On a side note, it's very gratifying to beat guys in badminton. I will say that on court, if I play a group of guys and they don't know me, they'll be a little condescending like, "Ok honey, we'll take it easy on you." These guys tend to take it the worst when they lose, especially if one team is XD and the other team is MD. I'm not saying I have a great game or anything but I do work on my game and actively try to improve a lot by doing research, the conditioning, the necessary training. So when some dude jump smashes at me and I get it back with a quick slice block over the net and when I do it again and again over the course of a match, it does feel good to make these guys realize they're being sexist with their assumptions.
     
  20. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    You sound like the perfect female half of a great mixed double. Quick and deadly at the net, good defense and court awareness and not afraid to hit from the back of the court. I was partnered up with a girl with almost all these features in my youth club team (nobody else wanted to play the mixed..) and that's when I quickly learned how much fun a good mixed doubles match can be.
    And okay... as a 14(?) year old bloke you also start to enjoy being around a nice and cute girl on a regular basis and that being a convincing motivation to play at your best level all the time... I hope that doesn't count as being sexist... :D

    During training, we also played against the MD's of the team and we were easily able to challenge them hard in every match. So I think that as a guy you have to make this experience once to really get how much fun a well played XD can be.
    The problem is, that there are so few women in the lower leagues who have this kind of killer instinct. Most women still in my current team simply love to hide somewhere much too close to the net (another very commom mistake you see in almost every recreational XD) and let the guy run around the whole rest of the court.

    And to finish my little story, the girl from back then is today playing with her team in the second highest german league (whilst I am playing something like 10 leagues lower...) and she still plays the XD there with great success.
     

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