Crosscourt net drop - do you use your wrist?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by BaddyBunny, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. BaddyBunny

    BaddyBunny Regular Member

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    I was watching another video for crosscourt net drops and the guy said to not use your wrist, as you only need to drop your elbow down. And if you use your wrist it will go too high or go downwards. And I do seem to have some trouble with the birdie too high when I do cross drops sometime. He mention if you drop your elbow down it will go across already. So should we use our wrist AT ALL? Or we can use it slightly?
    Is this true? Or is the guy just exaggerating for beginners?

    And do we "guide it across" with our arms if we don't use our wrist?



    I won't be on a court until Friday, so I can't really try this out for now. :(.

    Thanks!

    Said video here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZkQY25Aro
     
    #1 BaddyBunny, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  2. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    He's an ex-World Champion. So I think you could listen to him...:)
    I'd been taught by a Chinese ex-national team player for a short while. One thing that I learned well (I think) from him is my crosscourt net shot. In this shot, my coach also taught us to pull the elbow back towards our body, and rotate the forearm at the same time. No wrist work is involved. Maybe some tightening of your grip as you hit the shot.

     
  3. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    In some ways its a shame that those videos are on youtube - people will probably not buy the DVD as a result which is a shame for the company that made the DVDs - the instruction, in my view, is the best video demonstration of every single shot in badminton that can be found in videos. It is the most comprehensive, accurate and detailed I have seen.

    The key to looking at instructional videos is this:
    1. Watch the video
    2. Learn the key things they are trying to teach
    3. See if you can do them without the shuttle and have it look the same as in the video
    4. Start hitting shuttles and see if it works
    5. Practice hitting the shot several hundred times whilst trying to bear in mind what you learnt in step 2

    At the end, you will be hitting good shots. The important part was step 5 - lots of practice.

    The reason I say this is that I know professional players who play the cross court netshot:
    1. using only with their wrist
    2. without using their wrist
    3. using some wrist
    4. differently in different situations

    None of them are right or wrong, because the quality is high. The quality is high because they practised lots. So rather than see a video and worry if you are right or wrong, go and practice. See what happens. It goes without saying that you should only be seeking these videos and making changes if you are not happy with it i.e. if you can't do the shots. Otherwise, just watch the video and decide if you like it and want to try it. Sometimes it will work for you, other times it won't.

    Good luck
     
  4. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    You're being taught correctly! It just takes time and work.

    The cross court net shot comes from the elbow, not the wrist. The only time you should involve the wrist is if you're actually take it more from the mid court than the forecourt, at which point it becomes more like a block than a cross court net shot.
     
  5. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    I think it depends if it is backhand or forehand, and if you take the shuttle high or low.
     
  6. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Have you ever had a live demonstration from Robert Blair? I have - completely different technique on cross court net shots than everything I have ever seen or taught, but phenomenal. He did it using his wrist, with virtually no elbow movement. Note: he took it quite near the top of the tape, so I don't know how he plays it when its late.

    Regardless, there is an example of a top class player (silver world championship mens doubles!) doing it completely differently to what you just said.

    I used to agree with you... now I just go with "do lots of practice!". A tricky situation: teaching it one way can help players achieve better results quicker, but in the long run, it all works well!
     
  7. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    For me, completely opposite.
    Forehand, thumb grip, pronate (drawing a semi-circle).
    Backhand, side-thumb grip, suprinate (drawing a semi-circle).
    I think both techniques create the angle needed for cross-court net. Both techniques require stability - they require you to get in position slightly ahead of time. My technique is applicable a few inches off the floor. His technique has faster shuttle speed taking it high (plus looks good).
     
  8. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    That is what I was taught too, except that I found that on the back hand side, I also tend to use the wrist movement even when the shuttle is high, as the arm movement from inside towards outside lacks stability
     
  9. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Both of those methods work well, but I feel like those are more of a progression, something you can do as you advance. I personally feel that the elbow movement teaches the best ground work for progressing, it's the most demonstrable movement, it's simple, and it works.

    If you tried to teach a wristy action, I think you'd get a lot of confusion or over hits (sending the shuttle out). Hmm, it's tricky, because I was using that movement to push the shuttle back towards the mid court before I could do a proper crosscourt.

    There's nothing really wrong about these methods, it's just what's easiest to teach I think.

    Edit:
    This method also uses the same base movement as other net shots. Again this makes it easier to teach, but you also have the benefit of deception.
     
    #9 Charlie-SWUK, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  10. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Quick question: if you approach the shuttle on (for example) the backhand side and "show" a straight net shot, and then hit the shuttle as you described, how is that any different from the video demonstration? Do you not need to drop your elbow down before you supinate?

    I personally hit cross courts similar to you sometimes, but in my view its the same as the technique being shown in he video... I suppose you do not stop your sweeping action as soon as Peter does in the video? Is that the difference?
     
  11. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    Yes, they are differences. Peter's racket head stays at the same spot; the angle is generated by moving the elbow. My elbow stays at the same spot; the angle is generated by moving the racket head via suprination. Peter's movement is more in the vertical plane, while mine is more in the horizontal plane.
     
  12. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Fair enough. I know what you are saying. The reason I asked is that, at 1:45 to about 2:00 during the slow motion demonstration, you see that the racket has to move from horizontal for the net shot, to pointing roughly upwards at contact. As you say, peter lowers his elbow AND supinates AND uses his fingers and wrist all at the same time.

    The reason I asked you the question about showing the net shot first, is that in my view, for you to show the net shot, you need to be preparing to take the shuttle quite high. You then need to perform the sweeping movement for the cross court net, but you will take the shuttle at about the same height as you were preparing to take the net shot. Thus you need to drop your arm first, and then supinate.

    So in my head... if you were preparing for the straight net shot with a high contact point (which is probably a good thing in my view), the two techniques are:
    Peter - drops elbow + supinates + wrist + fingers all at the same time
    You - drops arm, then supinates (with potentially a bit of wrist and fingers)

    Therefore I believe the techniques are very similar if not identical, but one does the supination whilst dropping the arm, the other drops the arm noticeably before performing the cross motion with the racket.

    Hope that makes sense - thats the reason I asked! The key thing is the "if you were preparing to take a high net shot", followed by the cross court net shot.

    If I were to eliminate the assumption about showing a high net shot, then I agree the techniques could be considered very different. If you did not "show" the straight net shot OR when you showed the straight net shot, you started much lower than you eventually took the shuttle then I can see how the techniques differ as you described as you would not need to drop your arm at all.
     
  13. BaddyBunny

    BaddyBunny Regular Member

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    Wait, so in his video does he use the wrist a bit or not at all?
    Or should I stick to pushing lightly with wrist for my cross-drops (which is what I have been doing).

    Also, is that Peter R. or Peter Gade?
     
  14. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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  15. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Hi wrist moves ever so slightly at the end, but not much. So yes it is used a bit. Just focus on his grip, his posture and what the racket does - worry less about exactly which joints need to move in which order - MOVE THE RACKET. And above all, as I said before, go and practice.

    Good luck :)

    edit: if you focus on moving the racket using the correct grip, you can think about which of your muscles and joints is being used afterwards. But is is all a means to an end - you want to make the racket move like he does.
     
  16. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKuHZ3jJ9Q8

    Above is a video of when he takes cross court net very late, @3:19 onward when he shows why not to rotate the wrist in this one you can see from his racket why it would not work very well, require way to much timing where as the way he shows you present your racket flush below the shuttle then use finger and wrist cock, which will be a lot more consistent, Taufik, Gade all play that shot exactly as he does.

    Really good videos, never seen them before.
     
  17. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    The entire series is truly excellent. And you don't see many detailed explanations of an overhead backhand smash that have such a good demonstration with them!

    For those interesting in buying the DVD (which comes with online access to left handed and right handed versions of the videos) you can get it here:
    http://www.badmintonlife.com/store/

    Note there is also another DVD called "Ultimate Badminton Athlete" which is an excellent badminton specific fitness regime, which would be suitable for top level athletes. Its made by the guy who was in charge of badminton fitness in the canadian national team.
     
  18. mindfields

    mindfields Regular Member

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    Each technique has it's Pro's and Con's.

    I didn't have a great cross court net shot until I changed my technique to "No Wrist". I was taught the "No Wrist" technique by someone who uses the "wrist" technique. For those good enough it's a balance between consistency vs trickiness.

    Playing the shot with wrist means your racquet is "arcing" through it's swing and the point of contact is very tightly defined. Hit it early and you'll play the shot straighter, hit is late and it won't go over the net.

    If you "sweep" with your arm the racquet face doesn't change orientation and it doesn't matter if you hit it early or late, It's going to go in the same direction each time.

    Best analogy I can describe it is think of a Pinball machine. The Flippers are like using your wrist. Depending on your timing it can go in different directions. The Plunger you use at the start however only hits it in one direction, hopefully the tight cross court that you want.

    Using your wrist gives you options to change your shot but it's much harder to get it right.

    I can hit a tight cross court with "no wrist" 80-90% of the time. Using a wrist technique my consistency drops to 50%. During matches it'll be "no Wrist" technique cross court shots for me.
     
  19. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    I like this explanation, and is also how I visualize it.

     
  20. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    Yes very good description;
    it also show clearly that you need the shuttle to be quite high to do the no-wrist drop. And because sometimes the shuttle is low, we need the two techniques.
     

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