Basic doubles rotation

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by kaki!, Apr 14, 2015.

  1. kaki!

    kaki! Regular Member

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    Say I'm in the front and my partner is attacking/dropping in the back, but the attacks are weak and the opponents are lifting the birdie left and right. Soon enough my partner is bound to make mistakes. How do I help him rotate without him clearing to the back?
     
  2. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    If they're playing him side to side, when he takes one side, you then move into the other side; he should get the hint to move forward. I would do this when he's taken a shot on what would be your backhand side. You'll be able to move into position more easily to take a forehand side left than a backhand side lift.
     
  3. kaki!

    kaki! Regular Member

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    Wouldn't my opponents spot this as I move back, and either give us a net to the right side, or lift to the left side again?
     
  4. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    a) Opponent lifts to backhand side
    b) Your partner returns the shot, load your feet slightly
    c) They play a lift to forehand side
    d) You move into that shot, your partner should move forward

    This is usually used to mitigate fatigue.

    P.S this is assuming your partner plays a drop or smash
     
    #4 Charlie-SWUK, Apr 14, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  5. kaki!

    kaki! Regular Member

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    Ok I start to see it now. I need to communicate with my partner about this better as he also moves left and right in the back expecting to be played left and right. I need to break him out of this cycle. Thanks.

    Sometimes it's tough because I was so afraid to move leaving the front empty, so I always wait until our opponents do a lift and by then it's too late to rotate...
     
    #5 kaki!, Apr 14, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  6. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Lee Jae Bok has some great videos on all of this.

    Truth is you don't usually swap until you've changed into a defensive position and are re-making the attacking position. It's a pretty tough thing to do and takes very good awareness.
     
  7. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    As the man in the front you have total control over the positioning! The man at the back can see you - you can't see him. Therefore he *has* to go where you aren't ;)

    Make sure when you're the front player that you're not too close to the T, otherwise you have too far to go when rotating out.
     
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  8. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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  9. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    I wouldn't recommend a beginner/intermediate double to rotate in this situation in the video.
     
  10. LetsPlay42

    LetsPlay42 New Member

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  11. Hitman989

    Hitman989 Regular Member

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    This is an old post from the OP, but I wanted to share my recent experiences.

    I've started playing with a new group of people in a club recently. Almost all of the players don't know the basics of doubles positioning and rotation, and are very slow to react to opponents deceptive short shots.

    ~60% of their hits are clears
    ~30% of their hits are drop shots
    ~5% of their hits are net shots
    ~5% of their hits are smashes / drives

    When I see my partner frozen at one side after I hit smashes or drop shots from the back I would follow up on my own shots because you cannot expect the partner to rotate properly.

    When the opponents hit clears to my partner's back side ~60% of the time my partner returns with a clear and stay frozen at the back. I would initially rotate and move up a bit (one step or 2 at the most) and wait at that same position after noticing the clear hit from my partner. Since my partner doesn't get back into proper defensive position there is a hole in front of my partner, and by me staying at semi-front position I reduce that hole by a good amount and have been successful in preventing easy put-back drop shots from the opponent to my partner's side of the net.
     
  12. Hbmao

    Hbmao Regular Member

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    The original post talks about how to rotate back from a front-back formation to a left-right formation when the attack from the back is no longer effective. You talk about how to move out of a left-right, “you hit your shots I hit mine”, situation.

    Seems quite different, or even opposite scenarios. The latter is more straightforward, one can always take an initiative and move forward, and the partner just needs to cover the back side. The first one is a lot more tricky, as it’s hard for someone who focuses on back court to suddenly cover front. I’d suggest for such scenarios, if you want to move back to be left-right amid an “attacking scenario”, do it as decisively as possible to leave as much reaction time to settle into a left-right. Obviously the better solution is for the backside partner to realize the attack is losing steam, and either do a high clear or a drop, to provide adequate time to switch to a left-right.
     
  13. onesunnybeach

    onesunnybeach New Member

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    Question:

    I am at the front right, my partner is at the back (I do not know where) and he is doing a clear to the opponents left back (my side).
    From what I understand, my partner doing a clear from the back, we should be in a defensive position and be side to side, because of this I have to move back. Where do I move?
    From what I have learned, I can move back to either side (middle of each court half) as my partner in the back, has to watch me and so match my rotation move.
    So I can move back on my side (right, which seems to make sense as its the shortest way for me, or even over to the left court side (in each case to the middle of the court half.

    I had a game today where I moved from my front right, back on the right (after my partner in the back did a clear) and he ended up being behind me and we lost the point, as the opponents put the bird to our left where no one was.

    My partner told me I should have moved back to our middle left side, because he was on the right back, doing that clear.
    I obviously didnt know where he was in the back. He said I should have looked at his clear when it came over my head, accessing where he did his shot from... I was not taught this in the past, plus badminton being such a fast game, to trying to access so fast where my partner stands behind me in looking at his clear and then making a decision where I can go back too seems off to me.

    Really would appreciate your help in this matter, as I want to become a better doubles player and pass on what I have learned to others. Thanks!
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    You have to judge from the flight of shuttle beforehand where your partner is most likely to be. If you are at the forecourt area and the opponents lift the shuttle to the right side back of the court, your partner will have to move to that area. In doubles, you cannot stand at the forecourt and not have an awareness of where the shuttle is travelling left or right behind you.

    In this scenario quoted, your partner did a straight clear on the right side of the court. You need to move diagonally backwards to the left side of the court and he moves forward to cover the straight smash
     
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  15. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

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    Yes the front player decide & the back one that see all adjust to it, but its not totally random where you want to be as if you partner pushed back to the very right corner & you just kill him if you hope he would run to the left. Only if its from the middle, its totally up to you where you want to go.
    How? Badminton is dynamic sports that use alot of movement & sense. You can see where the opponent shot are directed. If your opponent shot it at the right corner & your partner are hitting it back, you partner would be at the right, unless he could do somekind of magic hitting it from the left. As mentioned before you could guest where the shuttle come from by looking at its trajectory, its badminton, not pingpong, so no curveed shot. Or you could hear the sound when your partner hit the shuttle & predict where the source of the sound come from.

    But then, i also want to ask. Not knowing ur situation, im currious why your partner do clear instead of drop or smash consider you are ready at the front? Also does his clear are high & deep enough?
    Coz i had experience where this 1 friend of mine had tendency to play the shot to the back court, i mean high likely he do clear, lift & rarely play the net or smash. Many times im in trouble when im at the front, he do attacking clear where the opponent are clearly stand there, it returned with smash & i had so little time to move backward which i find it somewhat chaotic when it happen & everything happen are entirely my reflex. Maybe its your case.
     
  16. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Your partner is right about where you move but there is another indicator as to where your partner at the back is hitting it from! He is hitting from where the opponent hit it to!! So you should know even before it goes over your head. Where your partner is. And you can even know where he hit it to quite early because you see the opponents reacting.

    If you move to the wrong side after he clears, then your partner at the back has a long distance to move.

    I had one funny situation where my partner at the back on one side, cleared it cross court , stayed back, and strolled over to the other side(which he should not have done). I moved back to what would have been the correct side based on where he was when he did his cross court clear. I knew where he was when he did the cc clear so I moved to the other side. But found myself moving backward into him! His fault.

    Another thing to learn is which side to move to when you at the front lift it.

    The difficult thing is to know soon enough that your partner cleared it .. it's not difficult to know where he did the shot from(as mentioned). Sometimes if I clear it I will call out "sides" so they know I cleared it and what they should do. As for what side, they at the front should know.
    In some cases it won't matter like if I at the back cleared it from around the centre line so not really to one side or the other.

    If it were an attacking clear then I think we would maintain attacking positioning front back.

    I remember being told once by a coach what your partner said to you about seeing the trajectory of the shuttle. Though I'm not sure if the purpose of that was to see where your partner was hitting from. I think you can know well in advance where your partner hits from based on where the opponent's hit it to cos they have to be there if they are to respond to it. The trajectory your partner hits it might be useful to know where he hit it so you can see if you should stay at the front.. if the opponent is under pressure. But also for that. The opponent's behaviour, responding to the shuttle, might be something you see sooner than the trajectory of the shuttle over you. Anyhow to know which side to move to, (if going sides), you should know even before your partner hits it.

    Maybe what your partner meant(but he misspoke) was watch the trajectory of the shuttle coming from the opponent's, and over your head to him.
     
    #16 ralphz, Nov 3, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
  17. BadmintonDave

    BadmintonDave Regular Member

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    If I want my partner to move somewhere, I shout "Go left / Go Right / Get back"

    It should prevent confusion and both parties going for the same shot.

    I say "get back" if I think they are too close to the net and leaving a gap behind them that I can't get to from my current position.
     
  18. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

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    Did that to to my want to learn friend. Im becoming broken recorder that keep talking non stop. Get back get back, go front go front, stay stay stay, split up split up, take it, let go let go. It works for them to learn positioning & forget their bad habit.

    But on real games, i think its bad to give code like that as if we let the opponent know what we will do.
     
  19. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    The calling out sides is very intentionally not to tell them more information than they need. Calling out sides could be done even if partnered with a good player. Cos it tells them straight away sooner than they might otherwise know. And it's not annoying them. It's not telling them things they know. It's telling them something about what shot you played so they find out straight away.
    (I guess re your method you wouldn't shout left/right to a good player that knew which way to move). And even calling that out I might only do if necessary. But it can be necessary/useful even with a very good player.

    If a partner didn't understand certain conventions so didn't know which side to move to then that's another matter, and could be addressed various ways including the one you mention of specific/customised instructions. And off court discussion and brief between rally discussion.

    Some low level players think they have to shout "yours" each shot just to make sure. I would then pause the game and tell them how we know whose it is. Then everybody on the court gets clarity on how to know whose it is!
     
    #19 ralphz, Nov 4, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
  20. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Your partner is right. If he is defensive clearing from the right back, then you should instinctively move back left.

    You absolutely cannot say you didn't know where your partner was, because you had to see the opponent sent the shuttle to the right back. And obviously your partner would take the shuttle there. But even if you somehow missed that, you can still tell where your partner is by the sound of his footsteps, sound of racket hitting the shuttle and the trajectory when the shuttle goes over your head.

    Don't worry though, the instinct will come naturally if you play regularly. In no time you'll just know where your partner is at all times without seeing him.
     
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