Park Joo Bong coaching forecourt: switch feet

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Cheung, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This random video came up on youtube.

    He is feeding shuttles....very fast!!

    I have forgotten the Japanese player's name.

    Anyway, look at the footwork when it switches at 0.45s. The right foot lunges across for the backhand and then switches back so the player is face on.

    Now look at the french player at 1.25s. Can you see after playing the backhand, he doesn't come on as square on to the net? Makes him feel uncomfortable playing the round the head.



    [video=youtube;iGt1i3ikTT4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGt1i3ikTT4[/video]
     
  2. Fidget

    Fidget Regular Member

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    The first French guy did have a pretty good backhand kill. :eek:
    But one sees your point that he might not be ready to move across the net as quickly as the Japanese player who followed him.
     
  3. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    Thanks for this Cheung. It's clear that the French chap is much slower and probably would struggle more to get to one (or at least maintain attack) on the forehand side if the next one was fed to his "dead zone" as his feet aren't ready for that. But could it be that he already knows or is expecting the next one to his backhand and so doesn't change feet positions?
     
  4. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Good observation Cheung. :)

    You could think of it like this:

    The forehand action and posture has much better coverage, especially when the reply is slightly loose (which is what you expect following an attempted kill).

    The reason for playing a backhand is that the shuttle was too far away for a good forehand. But once you have played the backhand, you are now positioned in your backhand net corner and no longer need a backhand. You can cover the replies with a forehand, and by being square on you are also better able to move quickly sideways along the net to any forehand shuttles.

    I also though Park Joo Bong had an epic side-beard, until I realised it was a headset mic. :D
     
    #4 Gollum, Mar 13, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  5. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Park Joo Bong is an exceptional coach.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    he's at a sever disadvantage anticipating like that.

    With that footwork, the French player can effectively only cover his left hand court. Even with a good backhand shot, you still have to be ready for the next shot. Stay on a backhand stance and he would not effectively cover anything forehand. As you guys pointed out, with his foot positioning, he cannot move across the net.

    In a game, if he cannot move across the net, the opposition only have to cross court block and easily get a lift. At the level he is playing at, his opponents are well capable of doing that.
     
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    With PJB shouting like that just before the player hits, is he doing that on purpose to get them to time the split step or anything?
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Not sure. Could be just his own style of teaching. Is it me or does the French player seem to back off the net a bit after playing the backhand compared to the Japanese player?

    I really like this video. It's quite uncommon to find a direct comparison of two players at this level.

    Park Joo Bong also emphasizes using a short racquet swing.
     
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Yes, the French guys were slower and more tentative up front.

    This is where speed, quick reactions, and compact stroke is paramount. Here you can really see the difference between fast twitch vs slow twitch muscles...
     
    #9 visor, Mar 13, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I don't think the difference is fast slow twitch - or rather, not so significant because it might be the technique differences.
     
  11. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I think his shouting is linked to intensity. When he feeds faster he makes a louder noise - so I think its to help the player with their intensity - moving quick when necessary, and slower when the shuttle is slower.

    What I find really interesting about the comparing the japanese players with the first french player, is WHERE they are standing.

    As Cheung mentions, the French player tends to come forwards for the backhand, and then move slightly backwards ready for an intercept straight at the expense of the cross court shot (which COULD arguably be left for their partner if the shuttle is really wide). The Japanese players however hold their ground and simply turn on the spot. They do not back off at all - they simply get ready for the next shot!

    The MOST interesting thing I can see about this (other than the fact it has taught me how to play at the net! Thanks COACH!) is how far forwards the players are standing. Its hard to tell exactly how far forwards they are, but the japanese players are definitely closer to the net than the front service line and never go back behind the front service line. The french players on the other hand are both predominantly BEHIND the front service line, and rarely go in front of it. So this is probably a court positioning difference of about 1 foot. Which is very interesting. Imagine how much better the taller french players would be if they had the same agility, low stance, and forwards court positioning than the japanese players.

    Absolutely love this video!
     
  12. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    -edited----
     
    #12 OhSearsTower, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    That's one thing I don't fully understand... taller players have longer reach and step, so they should be feared at the front/net.

    But then there are some fast agile tall pro players like Mogensen, Hong Wei, Ivanov who would own the net.
     
  14. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I agree. Whilst taller player are generally not as quick or agile, I believe that is because of their development rather than their capability. As they are young, they will not need to be as fast as shorter players because they can cover the court more easily. Thus, when they reach professional level, they can cover the court really well, but in a very different way to shorter players (who have had to develop exceptional leg speed in order to be able to cover the court at all).

    Therefore, I believe taller players should be capable of training to be that agile, but due to their height, have not developed those talents at a younger age.

    I wonder if the tall agile players were shorter as children e.g. regular height and hence developed agility, before having a sudden growth spurt which gave them height. This is highly unusual, normally taller men are taller from a young age.
     
  15. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Here comes one example/application of "yelling on court". I feel vindicated as PJB also does it! :cool:

    There might be a difference in style in addition to agility. Hard to say who these players are. As this is in Japan, and those "French" guys (how do we know they're French guys, other than the word "France" at their back), can't possibly be in the Japan National team, who really are they? So the bottom line is, are some of these Singles players, and some Doubles?

    The reaction of the French guy is what is taught here to the juniors by Doubles specialist. Once you hit a shot (esp. if it's a good shot), you immediately lean backward a little with racket up and ready for a straight reply, as this reply would be the fastest. In other word, you'd position yourself to attack the next most likely shot in a circumstance, and possibly sacrifice the other corner. Your partner would have to cover that. If the cross court shot is slower, certainly, he could pick it up too.

    For all the alleged speed of the Japanese, it is interesting (or questionable) how he'd cope had the return is a fast straight drive back toward him. So if there's a difference in performance, what we're talking about here is just a matter of trade-off.
     
  16. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    From Matt's observation on the difference in how close they are away from the net, those Japanese who stand so close to the net, is that intentional? Is that even correct, as in some other threads here people had talked about how a player might place himself out of position by standing too close to the net. Note also the position of PJB, in how far he's away from his side of the net.
     
  17. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    There is another difference - their heights.
    If getting racket up at head height would help better prepared for the next shot, then the French folks would be ready for the higher feeds at their normal heights, but not for the flatter/tighter feeds PJB gave them. They could be ready for those lower shots by bending backward a bit more.
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Very good points, raymond...

    In addition, those 2 Japanese players are probably used to this drill of left right alternating feeds, so they're already anticipating moving to the next shot faster. Whereas in a real game they wouldn't know which side the shuttle will be.

    It'll be interesting if PJB had randomly fed the shuttles and we'd see how the players cope.

    But still the French are noticeably slower with their feet and hands.
     
  19. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I disagree with some of the things Raymond has said.

    Firstly - as to whether they are singles or doubles players. If they are singles players, then their positioning for singles in this situation is wrong - after playing their backhand shots they should be moving to a more central position, not waiting towards their backhand side (as they were). Furthermore, even if they are singles players, in my view this is clearly a doubles drill, and as such they should be moving as a doubles player should. My reason for supposing this is a doubles drill is that the japanese players are clearly covering the court from a doubles perspective, and PJB seems to want the french players to do the same, rather than doing it differently as a singles player would.

    Secondly - I know what you mean about the younger players being taught to lean backwards and be ready for the next straight drive. But you said lean backwards, not jump backwards (as those french players were doing). In my view, the japanese players ARE ready for the shot, by immediately turning to face the defender on the other side. I do not get the impression a straight drive is going to go past them easily. Out of interest, are the french players movements as they back away from the net what you would expect to be taught to young doubles players?

    Thirdly - as to the advantage or disadvantage of how far forwards the players are stood. In other threads we have discussed about how being further back is a good thing - but that was about positioning when not actively hitting shots e.g. partner is smashing at the back, then you should definitely not be at the front service line. However, during a rally, having played a shot (potentially come a long way forwards to the net in order to take it early) then does it make sense to retreat again? Do you have time? In my view, this video demonstrates that, when you have come that far forwards, and all the shuttles are coming to you, your focus should be on watching the opponent and being ready for the next fast shot, not running backwards to adjust your court positioning. However, if a shuttle went over your head for your partner to smash, then yes, you would move backwards in the court in order to be able to cover a larger area. It is my personal view that when playing the front court, once you have played your shot, you do not have time to move forwards or backwards if you intend to be ready for the next shot (obviously only applies when you are playing all these fast drives and pushes rather than slower shots like blocks and net shots). You have instead just got to get ready!

    I agree about the heights. The french players should be getting down lower so that their rackets are operating at net level, not above it.

    Would be interested to hear your thoughts on what I have said!
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Ha!

    This is definitely in France. Look at the video on youtube. This video was recorded during the French Open 2014. You'll also hear the translation of Park Joo Bong into French.. Well, they could be Canadians if there is the french translation but Canadians should be able to understand Park's speaking english.. Other speakers of french would be from Africa but they don't look African to me. So I am betting that the players are Japanese and French.

    Have a look at 1.35 again. Park is clearly saying to the player to play round-the-head for the next shot (which the player promptly plays a second backhand...:) poor chap)

    The japanese player at the net is intentional - we are talking about world class players who's court coverage is better than the rest of us mere mortals. It cuts down the angles of replies. What is interesting is that this Japanese player does not raise his racquet head to the net level in anticipation of the next drive. He waits for Park to feed the next shot.

    What I omitted to mention before is the position of the left foot of the french player after he plays his backhand lunge. This is absolutely crucial to why he cannot follow Park's instructions to play round the head. The left foot is back into the singles court so the hips are facing diagonally outwards. Quite difficult to play round the head at speed. If the player faced the net with both feet parallel to the net, I reckon he would feel a lot more comfortable covering a round-the-head straight reply.
     

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