I am bad at rotation. I tend to move forward to attack and move back when defending. That's the extent of it. My club recently teamed me up with a new partner similar to my level and it's been not so great so far. First I admit I am terrible at rotation. I've read articles and watched Youtube of professionals playing, but I constantly get "advice" about my positioning from the more experienced players at my club, my opponents, my wife, the guy across the street, etc. One such advice is that if I am up front I stay up front. But my instinct is to move back to defend the smash when my partner hits a clear or lift. I watch some matches while focusing on the front player to see what he does. I think he goes to a crouch defense while still moving back slightly. I think that's what they are telling me to do- Don't bail out because I still have to cover the front court. Typical screw-up is: We're on the attack, my partner for some reason hits a clear or lift and I instinctively move back. Opponent sees me chickening out and hits a drop. Lost point and my partner and I look at each and I mouth "my bad". Another bad situation we find ourselves in is when I am at the back and I get deep clear or lift. My partner moves up to the front and I smash. However, the opponent blocks it back to me and I can't get to it because of my crappy footwork. From what I understand my partner is suppose to move in front of me since the straight smash is the most effective shot. But he stays on his side even though the clear is on the other half of the court. I think to fix this issue is that I need to figure out where he is and smash the shuttle so he is in front of the straight block. Right now, I am prepared to stay at the back to continue to smash if they lift, but they are saying I need to be ready to run up to get the short reply as well. These are just two examples where we as a team are horrible at. I feel it is a basic formation issue, but we can't get on the same page. I like my partner as a person and as a badminton player, but there is no synergy between us. We went 0-3 at our tournament. We weren't out of our league, but with such a broken system we gave away too many free points. I feel I am passive aggressive since I promise I will do what they say, but I am not convinced that what they are telling me is right. Please help me overcome my idiocy.
Since you're a fellow XP70 user, I'd say your partner is wrong. But seriously, in both situations you're doing the right thing. If your side has to lift, then you and your partner has to defend side by side. It sounds like your partner's lift is poor and has put you under unnecessary pressure when trying to get into position. Same in second situation, your partner should always position himself to look for the straight block to your smash. That is his sole responsibility. It is not yours.
Glad to read you have my back. XP-70 players unite! Also want to add this is how I view our broken partnership. We have a language barrier between us so it's hard to talk it out. We smile politely and nod in agreement, but we kept doing the same thing. It could be I am totally delusional and the reality is I am just slow footed.
You sound like you are caught up in a cycle you cannot break out of. I think there is no way you can affect someone else so you have to make changes yourself. The easiest is the one where you are caught out by a dropshot after moving back. You don't have to get every dropshot back but: A) you want to get more back B) you want to play a better shot when reaching them. You have to think carefully when you go backwards. What is happening as the opposite side hits the overhead? Do you feel rooted to the spot? Do you feel the shuttle is already past the net when you can react? There are three very common problems that affect most doubles players on defence. i) they don't do a split step (can't preload muscles), ii) they do a split step but the feet land sequentially on the ground (rather than simultaneously, iii) the centre of gravity is too high (standing too straight up as opposed to leaning forward) All three affect your ability to move forward to the forecourt drop. Practice improving these three areas and you will feel a lot more comfortable and confident. Get a picture of LYD on defence. See how low he crouches. Get yourself to imitate his body position on court side and take a picture. Compare you and him. I am 99% sure you will still be straighter than him. Try to crouch lower - a frequent analogy I use is the 100m sprinter at the start. They don't stand straight - they start off leaning forward to get the maximal acceleration forward at the start. So should you but the difference to them is you also need a well timed split step. For the smash, you don't smash straight. You play a shot that also is determined by the position of your partner. You will have to play with some players who understand movement and covering each other. Since you have been fairly weak at getting dropshots before, there has been adaptation to compact you into a more effective style of play within your limitations. If you can make a change in getting the dropshots and playing better quality shots (not winners but better shots that the opponent has to work harder to win points), this will really help in the long term. Be forewarned that the positioning on court will change as you become better. So, you may actually lose points by not being used to initially new situations. I wouldn't worry too much about the smash for now. Just concentrate on those technical points on the dropshots. Really focus for change and see how the result is. Remember that progress is a stepwise process.
Getting people to rotate properly is incredibly difficult. I actually had a chat about this with MSeeley because I've been having similar problems. The 'person who serves stay at the front' thing has been taken out of context. You are supposed to rotate. If your partner clears, you should move to a side by side, with both of you prepared to pick up a lift or move backwards to meet a clear. When my partner doesn't do the right thing, it starts to mess with my game, and actually leaves me worse for it. I lose focus and understanding of where I'm supposed to be, and it hits my confidence in where I'm standing. Your partner playing a rogue clear/lift is nothing surprising either. I've had that done too, and then I'm looking at it going to the back thinking, 'Why would you do this'. I have terrible synergy with people, and haven't yet found a fix. There are some people I play fantastically with. Others I get destroyed with.
It's actually quite hard to learn rotation. Mine only improved with two on one training. The coach would multifeed shuttles teaching us where we should be positioning and covering. I didn't learn it in a game situation as the scenarios keep frequently changing (as do partners). There is actually a very fluid zone system of covering the court. It's difficult to describe as the area of the zone of coverage changes as players move around court. When you understand how to cover the court, people will say you are very easy to partner.
Yes, I feel you are 100% right. I definitely have weaknesses and you've pretty much described the most glaring ones. I don't use a split step and my center of gravity is higher than it should be. My racket is also pointing at the ground. Huge huge fundamental errors, I know. These have served me well defending when my opponents mindlessly smash near my feet and I just guide the racket to intercept. If they smash higher or drop, I am caught flailing. I get the sense my opponents catch on pretty quick that I am cemented in my defensive stance and quickly exploit that with drops. You pretty summed up our tournament. We were fighting an uphill battle. We have our moments, but we (I) gave up too many easy points. So my three goals should be: 1) Split step 2) Lower defensive crouch 3) Work harder to return the drops On offense, I'll try to smash where my partner is a bit more (I was also told to always smash by my new partner). But I feel regardless how fast my smash is, if I don't vary the shot my opponents will adjust and zone in on it, rendering it less effective. I personally feel I need to hit an occasional drop to give them different looks. But I'll focus the defensive adjustment and the split step technique will help us stay in more rallies and keep us in the game. Our offense is not really that big an issue (We can bring the heat), it's just the part where we're trying to take the initiative of the point is where it is just a big mess. Thanks!
No problem. If you are feeling diligent, you can do some supplementary exercises to strengthen your legs. Single leg squats - this also trains your proprioception as well as strength. No need to go down all the way. Single leg calf exercise - stand on the edge of a step balanced on your forefoot. Relax slowly so that your calf so that your heel goes down (also stretches Achilles tendon). Do 10-20 contractions of the calf so that your body goes up and down. Change to the other leg as well. Be a bit careful if you are the 90+ Kg weight category
A few random thoughts. I've seen people using crouch defense. The instinctive backward retreat might not be good all the time. If you sense you'd be late in backward recovery, it may be better if you knee/crouch down, with your racket up attempting a flat counter-attack to the smash at you. However, you partner would pretty much need to cover everything else. If your partner plays a good attacking clear/lift, and catch your opponent, esp. find them about to play a backhand, or can't be in position to play hard shot, you could/should stay at the front. In principle, you're still on the attack. If you're playing with players who can't get into generally good position (i.e. follow the shuttle), you may have to help them out in order to work out as a team; this means playing shots more to in front of him so he won't be out of position to cover the next shot. This is a percentage thing, which means you can still play other shots to other positions to avoid being completely figured out by your opponents.
This is the technique I need to learn. I've seen this defense used very effectively by a female player at our tournament last week. She played with the men's A group and she returned hard smashes at her in the front court time and time again. It looked so natural but I think she is a little shorter so the angel of the smashes are higher relative to her body. I've also seen Yoo Yong-Sung use this defense pretty effectively. My take-away from watching him is that he keeps the movement very small and he also crouches a bit to get a good angle.
You're getting terrible advice from your partner. It's difficult, but try to find people who actually know how to position themselves on a badminton court. If your partner is clueless, then your positioning is never going to work properly. You are bending yourself out of shape trying to compensate for the weird positional ideas of your partner. Get a better partner.
Absolutely! But often players get stuck in a "no man's land", where they aren't quite good enough in their current group or club. Their progress can be limited by the types of games they get to play. Sometimes you need to look outside your existing group.
i think this thread goes very much in the "wrong" direction while of course the best thing everybody can do is concentrate on himself and improve as best as one can, the OP had a specific problem from what YOU wrote here (we dont have the opinion of your partners which may differ) I think you are right in how you move on court I do think the doubles basics are pretty simple! Attack formation and defence formation are very simple to learn and i think every player who plays regularely must learn it to avoid clashes of rackets (and bodys ) For really good doublepartners there is a lot of finetuning of course! but this is not what it is about here as far as i assess @OP: If the situations you described here are correctly reflected then I think you should be more self-confident! If you smash from the back and your partner does not get the blockreply than it is his fault... if he additionaly gives you a look or blames you that it is your fault then you really have to stand up and tell him that he must cover the net if you are in the back i think it is pretty ridicolous to get blamed from ppl who are the ones making the errors! i know 2-3 guys of our club who gave me a look here and then at exactly that same situation (i smash from the back, opponent blocks to the net)...some day i "yelled" at them that they dont need to look like whatever at me when they did the mistake! and in the case of smash-block example it is a really big mistake of them! I told them that they have to be in frontposition already when I hit the shuttle! (obv. you must make sure that you are right but you get a pretty clear idea of what is right and what is wrong from youtube videos...teaching vides as well as pro tournament videos) fortunately i was able to improve so games with such people happen only rarely now
Agreed. It's a partnership. I have my responsibility to get better. It is not like I am great with footwork and rotation. As I wrote earlier there is a language barrier between us so I could have simply not understand what he's doing to compensate for me either being out of position or my weakness in covering certain shots. That could be why he tells me to smash every chance I get so we can be in an attack formation which lessens our chances of being out of position. We still find ourselves in a screwy spot at times. Thank you for at least agreeing with me conceptually I am correct with my basic grasp of rotation. It is messing me up when I am told to do something else than what I've learned. I will do what's under my control which is to work on the basics. Split step, lower stance and mentally be prepared for drops. I am a social player and I like my partner so it is not worth it to me to lose a friendship over this. I was conflicted because I want us to be better. I want to listen to my partner but seems we are on different page altogether. Perhaps, as Cheung wrote earlier, we need to take lessons as a team to cover each other.
read my post above yours in case you missed it you are blaming yourself way too much! the best way to keep partnership and friendship alive is that both of you learn it correcty! (and not that one guy is pushed down by the other guy who may not even is on the right page!)
To be honest, for the smash situation, I hesitate to comment without seeing the situation more clearly. Getting to the dropshot technique was more straightforward in giving advice. If the OP has better technique and gets more shots back, he is going to be more justified in contributing more of his opinion in the game and playing with other people.
Haha. Thanks, but I don't lack self-confidence. It's just I've head about my need for better footwork and rotation from so many people (which I agree with by the way) I want to improve by listening to advice anyone offers in those areas. Just seems so unnatural to me if I understand him correctly. Plus I am 50% of the team and I don't want to just shut my partner's advice out. I need to be able to work with him. Nevertheless thanks for the advice, but I will focus improving my own weaknesses and hope to explain to my partner why I bail out of the front when he hits a clear or lift when he can hit a drop or smash. I try not to tell players what to do unless advice is sought since I don't see what they see and I am not that experienced a player. But I tell him if his shot to our opponents is high, then we are no longer on offense and must go to a side to side defensive position.
