Forehand Corner Shots (Singles)

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Charlie-SWUK, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I've had it drilled into me that if you play a forehand overhead, your racket leg should come through with the racket. It makes it better for deception, allows you to get more power, and that's just what I've been encouraged to do.

    But I've noticed high end players aren't doing this. They keep their racket foot back, and actually reach backward to take the shuttle from the forehand corner.

    I'm assuming this is to avoid opening up too much of the court, allows them to save some stamina by avoiding the extra steps needed to follow through, and is generally easier on their bodies.

    My questions are:
    1) How are they getting the power to play a full court clear from this position? Even when I try to suppinate at both the elbow/radioulnar and wrist, I can't get enough power to make that shot into a clear. I can manage dropshots from this position though.
    2) Does the ability to retain base position provide that much more of a tactical advantage than gambling on the smash? Is this actually a much safer way to play the shot?
    3) Is this a move adopted as a means of stamina conservation that doesn't apply to single match games? Some of these guys are late 20s early 30s, and know they might have to play 3 sets - with more games the following day.

    4) Which overall, do you feel is the better movement to make?
    A shot that requires you to get behind the shuttle, that can then be played as any forehand you like.
    Or the advantage of remaining closer to base, allowing you better court coverage?
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It depends on the height and path of the clear. A very high clear, yes, do the hip rotation. These guys are rarely getting the very high clear in their games.

    Tactically the game has changed at their level of speed.

    What you have learnt is the classic basic technique - it's good. Strong foundation technique.
     
  3. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Ah, so this method only really works as a defense against offensive clears?
     
  4. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Finger power?

    Probably the best example of what you're describing is Tai Tzu Ying, who has this incredible cross court punch clear from her forehand corner all the way to the other corner... despite her getting to the shuttle late and out of position...
     
  5. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    If they had enough time, the pros would get behind the shuttle...
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    From your description of "reaching back", I assume that you, as a player, is reaching the shuttle late. To play a clear from an almost underarm technique is pretty difficult and takes practice and good timing.

    For preparing, the footwork is to put the leading leg out and backwards. The foot should land externally rotated for stability. The arm should be drawn back behind the body as should be the racquet head. If the racquet head is to the side of the body, and then you try play the stroke, you will probably hit the shuttle sub optimally. The timing of striking the shuttle should be the same as the landing of the foot.

    It's not an easy shot and the timing of simultaneously landing the foot and striking the shuttle is quite hard.

    As Visor mentioned, finger power with pronation.

    All have to be well timed. If one part of the technique is off, you lose power to make a clear.
     
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  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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  8. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Many things that coaches have often drilled into players are wrong, or at least misleading.

    What you're describing is often called a kick-through -- that is, an active rotation of the body where the feet swap positions, with the racket foot landing in front and the non-racket foot behind.

    There used to be a lot of emphasis on this in coaching, but not so much these days. Using a kick-through as your standard forehand movement causes problems. You will be working a lot harder than you need, you will be more off-balance, and your court coverage will be reduced.

    The typical good use of a kick-through is when you want to smash straight and follow it in to the net (usually singles).


    The power comes from a good forehand throwing action. This takes a lot of practice. The hitting action should be smooth and relaxed, using the whole arm with a follow-through. You should not try to force it using "extra" forearm rotation. Avoid a "clippy" or "wristy" action. It's all about timing and lots of repetition.

    With good coaching and enough practice, you can easily clear end-to-end without using a kick-through. You may even find you need to start hitting your clears a bit higher to stop them going out the back!

    Bear in mind I am talking about a "normal" situation here. If you are under a lot of pressure and taking the shuttle late, it becomes much more difficult to play a good clear.


    In most situations, you must expect your opponent can hit the shuttle to all areas of the court. With a kick-through, you are only well-prepared to move in one direction: straight forwards towards the net.


    Constant kick-throughs are very tiring. A good tactic against players who have been "drilled" into always using the kick-through is to make them do it several times in a row by clearing repeatedly to their forehand corner.

    Their recovery will probably get sloppy pretty quickly, at which point you can send the shuttle anywhere to their backhand. The one thing you don't want to do against these players is give them a forehand corner lift, followed by forehand shot at the net. This sequence lets them move straight forwards rapidly to the net.


    The kick-through is superior when you have a definitive attacking opportunity. You can use it to get a little more power in your smash, and more importantly it helps you charge in to the net for finishing the rally.

    Let's not forget that, for the maximum power, you also have the option of a dead-jump ("classic" doubles-style jump smash).

    In most other cases, it is better not to use a kick-through. You still have different options. You can stay on the ground; you can jump out to intercept; you can chasse back quickly and jump up. There are many options, and the best one depends on the situation.

    I would suggest you free yourself from the strict limitation of kick-throughs, and experiment with various movement options. :)

    When you are not turning the body -- i.e. not a kick-through, and not a jump up or dead-jump -- then you are better off with the impact point a bit out wide of your shoulder, rather than directly overhead. Bear this in mind when you try out different movement options.

    The reason for this is that, since you have not rotated before the hit, the biomechanically efficient hitting zone is in a different place (out wide). It's not just more efficient, but also more comfortable, avoiding impingement in the shoulder.
     
    #8 Gollum, Mar 2, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  9. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I gave it a shot tonight, I could get a shot from the rear to the mid court, but it's not really good enough for a game.

    That said, my timing was terrible tonight, so maybe I'll have better luck with the shot when I'm not playing badly.
     
  10. Yousor

    Yousor Regular Member

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    My understanding is the following:
    You kick through on every forehand shot on your forehand side, if you can get behind or at least under the shuttle, but the shuttle is not too far away sidewise on your forehand side. How would you do a kick thorugh, when the shuttle is 1 m to the side of you? Impossible! The kick through maybe more or less pronounced. Watch the professionals warming up before a match and take a look at their feet.

    To get to the forhand corner you have three possibilities.
    1. Step out with the right foot and jump into the shuttle. No kick through possible. But that is because the shuttle is more sideways to your body and your bodyweight is "flying" that way. While landing your right foot points in the direction your knee bends and the right leg takes almost all the weight.
    Good example:Attacking the return
    This is the best you can do. You are fast to the shuttle, have all possibilities to distribute the shuttle to a secific corner.
    But on the downside it will fatigue you a lot, jumping into every lift. Not every shuttle is reachable that way.

    2.The lift is high and you have time to get to it. That does not imply slow movement! Step out with the right foot, then get closer to the baseline and into the corner by a shuffle. Usually you should be under or even behind the shuttle and it would hit you on the head or fall in front of you. Doesn't matter what shot you play, you will kick through. Your left leg will give you the possibilty to drive out of this corner. That is the purpose of the kick through. You are not Iimited to moving forward only, you may overturn, depending on the shot you play, to recover to the middle. don't see any balance issues here, or how your court coverage will suffer from it.

    3. This is the described way, the op was confused about. The situation is like in #1, but you are too slow, too lazy or just don't feel today. You lunge into the corner to reach the shuttle behind/sideways of you. The point of contact is much lower then jumping into it obviously, but should still be as high as possible.

    I don't see a difference in the way it fatigues you, because a lunge and driving out of it, too will consume a lot of energy.

    Playing a forehand shot on the backhand side always requires the kick through. Your left leg will drive you out of this corner, especially if you are putting your whole bodyweight backwards.

    Watch this: LCW A couple of rallies, where LCW uses the kick through on his backhand side, in a more or less pronounced way. Some jumping into the shuttle and the lunge to reach "behind" you. At 8:02 is another example where LCW jumps in sync with the shuttle. No kick through, as it would be impossible in this situation. At 10:42 LCW two consecutive smashes one jumping in and one with a kick-through. There are other versions of this video for Japan Open 2012 and 2013.
    Watch Wang Shixian in this rally: 1:00:29 She does some variations in getting the shuttle "late" out of her forehand corner (watch where the right foot is pointing) and some variations of the kick through.
     
  11. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    No, I think that is too simplistic.

    Having said that, I think we may be using different meanings of "kick-through". I'm talking about a very active swapping of the feet, as opposed to (say) just bringing the racket foot alongside or slightly in front (which could happen with or without a jump).

    In other words:

    • You can use a kick-through
    • Or you can use less rotation
    • Or you can stay side on

    It's not "kick-through or nothing".
     
    #11 Gollum, Mar 11, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
  12. Yousor

    Yousor Regular Member

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    That is a difference. If you just walk a step, bringing the right foot from behind the left to the front, that would still qualify as a "kick through" for me, because the principle is the same.
    Could you give examples for the other two points (less rotation, staying side on)?
     

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