Smashing at Women in XD?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by No_footwork, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Hey there,

    Just wanted to get people's thoughts if it is in bad form to smash at women in XD.

    I have some old-fashion tendencies and this manifest in my XD games where I don't smash at the girls. This makes me predictable because when I smash it is usually at the gent. My primary style is to create constant pressure and the smash is my chief stroke.

    Recently, I sense some of my female partners are not happy with me because the other guy is smashing at her and we're losing (Plus I am not playing to my strengths and the view is I am letting an opportunity to win a point go by).

    Our level is that most of the women players do not move back from the net to assume a side by side position (I know that is a silly way to play, but I don't offer my suggestions until asked). Hence, my partner usually eats a big one every now and then against a guy who have no problem destroying a woman.

    My view is that:

    1) Getting hit by a smash doesn't hurt that much
    2) They need to learn to move back to a side-by-side position when they see the birdie is up and it is obvious a smash is coming
    3) This serves as a reminder not to lift unless you absolutely have to

    Just curious how others view this situation.
     
    #1 No_footwork, Feb 5, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  2. PinkDawg

    PinkDawg Regular Member

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    Don't sacrifice your partner!!!! :confused:

    If the girl doesn't want to be smashed at, she would employ tactics such as lifting cross from her to avoid being smashed at cross. If the girl isn't moving back, then your smash has full reign especially because the guy has to cover nearly the ENTIRE court.

    Moving back is merely a formation and everyone should do it, at any level, for defense.

    If she is relying on you so much that she won't even go back for defense, you must step up and smash and use whatever it takes to win. If she wants to win, then she should back up for defense. It sounds like you already know these, though. :confused::confused:
     
  3. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    I hit at women, but only just a tap kill or a 1/4 speed smash if she moves back. Unless I think the channel attack is clear - ive let rip at women by accidentany times so now I try and see where she is first. Usually belt it at the man or go for tramlines in the lady-stays-at-the-net formation.

    In short I'm a gentleman and agree with you. You just have to learn to smash through the man ;)
     
  4. vicng87

    vicng87 Regular Member

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    She lifts, doesn't fall back to defend, but doesn't duck either to avoid being smashed at? Not your fault lol
     
  5. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Haha. Don't get me wrong, I am not giving the other guy opportunities to smash at my partner. I hit drop shots and pushes to get them to lift. However, when under pressure, I do my best to hit a high a lift as possible. So no, I am not trying to get my partner killed. :)

    I agree that the opposing guy at the back has a much more area to cover when defending. However, sometimes in trying to avoid hitting at the opposing girl I have to hit around her.

    My most effective shot is a smash down the middle (normally this is a no-brainer for me, if it's there for me I pounce). Also, I rely on the steepness and power of the shot to win the point, not so much placement. During a point, I tend to always keep in mind where the opposing girl is (middle front) instead of just instinctively blasting one down the middle.

    Yeah, I know the silliness of the situation, but I think they are playing to avoid their weakness (limited movement skills and lack of clearing strength). If they move to a side-to-side position, I think they are afraid of being exposed to the high and attacking clears. Their response will be either a drop shot or a short clear (1st being predictable and 2nd being just bad news for us). Therefore, they stick toward the net so there's less court coverage and they don't have to move backwards (which I see is a common issue).

    Just to be clear, I do smash but not at the opposing girl. Unfortunately, I have to try to smash around her. These games are not a big deal for me since it's mostly a social situation (at least for me) but I do try to win for my partner.

    I bring this subject up to see how other players view if it's appropriate to smash at the girl in matches where there is a clear physical difference (These matches are our daily club not tournament play).
     
  6. TeddyC

    TeddyC Regular Member

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    For the very same reasons u mentioned, would much prefer md to xd.

    My playing style is similar to yours for xd. Will feel bad smashing at the weaker gender especially when her level is low. Would only smash if her level is up to par with her male partner. Even then will avoid smashing at her directly.
     
  7. m3w78

    m3w78 Regular Member

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    1) By chosing not to smash at the female, you're indirectly saying that you are so much better and/or stronger than her, and you will overwhelm and hurt her if you tried your best. It's insulting to her, and egotistical for yourself. If she's playing at your level, she can take your smashes. And I'm sure that she'd appreciate the opportunity to practice returning smashes.

    2) Unless you're hitting her directly in the face from only a few feet away, a smashed bird is not going to hurt! In that case, I would hold back whether I was hitting at guy or a girl. Being hit by a hard smash from mid/back court would barely even tickle. If you're not playing to win, you're disrespecting your opponent.
     
  8. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    @m3w78 , I appreciate the feedback, but my responses are as follows:

    1. Recognizing that I am stronger, faster, and have better technique doesn't necessarily make me egotistical. It is a matter of accurately observing my situation and realizing for what it is. I don't need to indirectly say that I am better and stronger than the girl in my scenario. It is just apparent by observation. On the flip side, if I were to match up against a much better opponent. It wouldn't take long for people to figure out that I am outclassed.

    I have forgotten to write the matches are not even in skill or in physicality, that is why I consider it a social game. I think I understand what you are trying to write, but not everyone is at the same level. For example, I have no problem recognizing in a given match that my opponent is better than me. I may be chauvinistic, but I disagree I am speaking out of ego in this situation.

    2. Me personally, getting hit by a birdie didn't hurt, but I power-lifted as well as participated in several violent sports for over 15 years so I have a different body type and pain threshold than say a woman in her 40's. And I want to err on the side of caution. Also, at the risk of coming across with a big ego again, my smashes are fairly violent.

    I am always trying to win, but with a different style. Instead of using smashes to provide pressure, I use more movement pressure. I am not as good with that style which is why I am not winning as much, but I can honestly assure you I am trying my hardest to win. Just without smashing at the girl.

    Good discussion.
     
    #8 No_footwork, Feb 5, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I completely understand and agree with your situation. Only problem is your male opponent seems not to... ;)

    Hence, if you know your opponent female is weak and assuming your female is stronger, just fake smash drop at her. Or fast drop into the mid side tramlines. Anything to get your female involved. Anything, anything but a lift. Repeat, no lifting! :)
     
  10. Orangie

    Orangie Regular Member

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    In a social game, what is the point of going all out and win 21-0 or 21-1, playing 2-vs-1? I hate 3 shots points and <5mins games. In a competition, it is a different story.
    I agree with play to win. It gives a chance for weaker players to guage themselves against stronger players as in try to win. I would play harder returns for the stronger players while softer returns for the weaker players.
    I don't think that is anthing about ego or being a mcp in social games. I believes score doesn't matter, number of returns and quality of shots does.

    I was in some XD games where I was practically standing in the middle of the court and they are playing 2-vs-1. That's frustrating, however I do my best to cover the rest of the court. At the same time could explain the need for rotation. I won't tell her what to do, I'll let her experience it and then point it out. The response will be "Ya hor" and the cycle repeats itself.:eek:
    There are also games that 2 weaker players-vs-1 much stronger player;)

    My take in social games,
    play to win
    More quality returns
    less trick shots
    no fooling around
    Hopefully to up the level of play in the club.
     
  11. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Pretty much sums up my attitude. Except I get this tiny tiny feeling my partner may be annoyed with me that I am not using my best weapon as much to win.

    I am still trying my best using my other technique, but they can tell my smash is my most effective shot from watching me play even MD games.
     
  12. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    If your male opponent is smashing to your XD partner, you can do weaker smashes at his female partner too as a compromise. She will be able to return your smashes weakly and your partner would finish it off.
     
  13. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    Are you guys really discussing whether it's ok to smash at the lady?
    I would never even think about such silly things. As soon as she steps on court on the other side, she obviously has to deal with the whole arsenal I have, just as a guy has to.

    Would I full power-smash on the lady? All day, every day!
    Would I (in competition, not in training) play the net-kill to her body? Of course!

    This has nothing to do with sportsmanship or politeness.
    To me, it's even the other way around: I think it's belittling and arrogant NOT to smash at the lady. She's a 100% opponent like any man, not a little baby you have to care for and treat like a puppy. That's not my picture of a woman as an athlete.
     
    Jilles likes this.
  14. Rykard

    Rykard Regular Member

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    how is she to learn if you don't hit her with everything?
     
  15. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    play a real game man
    its disrespectful to toy around the opponent because you think youre so much better

    if its true what youre talking about, that you have so much time to think about where to hit and who not to hurt - which sounds pretty arrogant btw - then you opponents must be some levels lower than you..i wouldnt even step on court for such a game...(except for a new beginner player in the club asks for a game and i kind of have to play with him/her)

    if the lady is standing in front (and not the appropriate side by side formation) then i smash all day long at her until she learns how to position right


    the behaviour you think is gentleman behavior - in my view it is unsportsmanship
    because the best way to respect your opponent ist to play your best
     
    #15 OhSearsTower, Feb 6, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  16. Razor-BladE

    Razor-BladE Regular Member

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    Depends on who the lady is.

    At our club we have a lot of elderly ladies who in all the time I've seen them, haven't really improved (and stay front of court). They just don't have the strength or quickness to defend such smashes/net kills nor do they have the footwork to get into position most the time. As such, I might half smash at them, or smash in open space but not full smash at them as for them, they won't learn anything, and the match won't really be 'interesting'.

    That's not to say that I'll fool around and play fancy shots or won't put effort into moving around. It means I'll use/can practise a lot more placement, rather than power.

    Having said that, if I'm playing against better matched opponents/in a league/tournament game, then yeah I'll smash at them. Front/mid court smash? Probably into open space because I'm not playing high level league games so it's still quite social.
     
  17. No_footwork

    No_footwork Regular Member

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    Thanks for bring this important aspect up. Playing fancy shots and looking uninterested to me is more disrespectful and offensive than smashing at a lady. There was a guy who used to be in our club that did just that and my wife really disliked him big time for those same reasons.

    Btw- for what it's worth my wife thinks it's the perfect strategy to smash at women. She complains to me constantly that I am not trying hard enough. I tried in vain to explain I am trying hard, but I was raised to treat women a certain way.
     
    #17 No_footwork, Feb 6, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  18. AdrianBraganza

    AdrianBraganza Regular Member

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    First off, this topic wasn't really necessary because as someone mentioned before if a lady steps on court to play a game or two, she must be knowing what to expect and in return as a male player we have to respect that with our natural game..Also if a game does get fast there is absolutely no time to think, assess and then take a shot keeping the lady in mind, your rally will be done for in that case..Remember this is a sport where these things will happen..
    Another thing to mention is if its a social game there maybe instances where the lady may have got a glance at your game and so, knows your style and is prepared to take it on..I have played XD before and with my natural game and I have let the birdie rip off my racquet when there was a chance to and it has hit a lady at the front so much so it took them a minute or so to shake it off..When I smash irrespective of the opponents I will always go for a smash to the body most of the times and rarely to the tramline's..So the moment you shift from your natural game your female partner and opponent may know it..
    Now if your that worried or cautious change your game up and let your partner cover the back court area and you cover the front and mid..That way she can swing at will while you can play the net and mid court..I do that after a point or two..Cause that way the smash is coming at you and your partner can work on just clearing the birdie to the other side..One caution is, expect racquet clashes depending on skill level.....
     
  19. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    Glad I never play these "social" games.

    I have a question:
    If you play these "social" games, do you count points? Because this would be really stupid, to play with someone who is really worse than you and treat him like a baby and not smash and then count points...
     
  20. m3w78

    m3w78 Regular Member

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    [MENTION=121125]No_footwork[/MENTION],

    I wasn't trying to say that you (personally) are egotistical. I just feel that it's inherently arrogant to remove one of your best shots from your game, because you don't think your opponent can handle it. I guess I mistakenly assumed your opponent was at or near your own level.

    Personally, if I were a female, I'd want my opponents to bring their A game, and smash at me every time it's appropriate. Otherwise, I wouldn't learn when to realistically expect it in a serious game, or learn how to return them.
     
    Jilles likes this.

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