Online coaching on "round the head" shots wanted.

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by BernieR, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. BernieR

    BernieR Regular Member

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    Hi,

    I'm a slowly improving recreational player, I find I am doing more round the head shots from the deep backhand court, instead of backhands, which is a good thing, but I don't have much idea what makes for good technique with this shot. I find I am hitting shots out on the opponent's forehand side.

    Does anyone know of online coaching/videos about this shot? Or do you have any advice?

    Bernie
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    One word: footwork.
     
  3. BernieR

    BernieR Regular Member

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    I did realise footwork would be involved visor, so your one word of advice doesn't really get me any further forward.
     
  4. alien9113

    alien9113 Regular Member

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    Footwork wise, you need to be fast.

    Assuming that you are right hander and you are starting off from your base:

    1. Perform a split step; your right foot may be slightly forward
    2. Turn your body
    3. Move backwards
    4. Prepare your racket, but instead of the racket face facing forward like in forehand, have it face cross court
    5. Do all your preparation for a clear, drop, etc
    6. Hit the shuttle
    7. Follow through and prepare for the next shot

    You will have to adjust your racket face if you want it to go straight and not cross all the time. But that will only come with improvement to footwork.
     
  5. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    The technique for round the head is closely linked to footwork. As such, please describe your footwork so I can best help you.

    There are no online videos about true around the head technique. What I would suggest is to keep it very simple. As you reach around the head, your back will arch towards your backhand side and your racket arm will go up and you will reach across to the backhand side. To ensure you keep control: reach your racket to where you will make contact as you "prepare" to hit. Make sure your strings are pointing forwards. Then, all you need to do is pronate (twist your forearm, if you don't know what pronation is) so that instead of pointing the strings towards your target, you point the butt of the racket towards the target (a 90 degree turn), then simply snap your racket back to its original position in order to make contact.

    Make sure the racket returns to its original position, where the strings were pointing forwards towards the net. All shots, but this one in particular, is about paying attention to where your strings are pointing at contact. After contact, try to limit the follow through.

    This is a very compact hitting action, and ensures great accuracy and control and there is plenty of power once you get used to it!

    Good luck!

    p.s. I can explain the footwork if you need me to.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    A late contact point will do this. Getting back fast will help. Look up the 'Fei Bo' footwork thread.

    'Fei Bo' is a combination chinese word that means 'flying step'.
     
  7. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    There're some on Youtube, actually. I casually looked, and found 3 (I presume you're referring a shot with forehand but play on backhand side):

    1. X-court sliced drops - this you may need to save till later once you get better control of your shots and footwork (Chinese but with English subtitle) -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC92uqmbqWU

    2. Overhead clear - by LJB. He doesn't talk much about footwork here, but rather change of grip.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4uv4Awa8Q0

    3. Here's one slow motion of Lin Dan playing overhead smash:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u05d8yfijhk

    If the above is along the line of what you're looking for, try search for "playing overhead badminton" on Youtube, and see if you can find more.
     
  8. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    One caveat I forgot to mention. When you look for videos on Youtube, keep in mind that not all demonstrators are qualified. You can quote the videos you like/find that interested you here, so people could comment on it, before you start practicing them.
     
  9. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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  10. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Just a point from me: I really dislike this video. I do not like his botched demonstrations followed by "perfect" panhandle grip techniques - they are so infuriatingly rigged to be ridiculously bad...

    Anyhoo. The technique is probably fine for some players, but LCW (and every other professional player) seems to manage without the panhandle grip change - so why does LJB insist on its importance.

    Enough ranting! Just hope everyone remembers: with coaching videos - the technique may be fine, but the demonstration or explanation is often rigged. I know many coaches who would agree with the techniques in this video, and countless more who would disagree. Thats life I suppose! I just hate to see players quote these videos and act as if its the ONLY way to do something just because some online coach somewhere said so...
     
  11. lump101

    lump101 Regular Member

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  12. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    Hi there,

    ATH ( around the head ) shot is just another modified overhead forehand shot. If you have the correct footwork preparation and swinging technique to execute a descent forehand shot, then theoretically you have some practical approach on how to execute an ATH shot as well. Since this is a just a forehand shot taken at your backhand side, there are few critical facts that you need to be fully aware so that you can execute an ATH shot convincingly

    1. As been mentioned here as well, similarly like all the other shots there are that exist while you are playing badminton, to execute a convincing ATH shot will also still bound to the same rule that is you need to have a proper footwork movement in order for you to do one.

    The logic for this is that since an ATH shot is an off balance shot where your upper body needs to be awkwardly tilted and angled itself towards your backhand and non racket leg side in line with the direction of the shuttle, this uncomfortable posture will indeed create certain difficulty for you in viewing and locating the optimal hitting zone to execute an ATH shot.

    If your footwork movements is not fully aware and fluent to propelled and move your body to position yourself to maneuver such above body posture behind the shuttle that is traveling to your backhand side QUICKLY, the shuttle will sooner indeed past beyond your view thus your hitting zone and your planned ATH shot will indeed become an emergency backhand instead.

    IMHO, the most important facet in your footwork element in your effort to execute a convincing ATH shot is how are you well AWARE to initially move to propelled yourself in positioning you quickly to perform an ATH shot. Since you cannot plan an ATH shot completely but you if you can read your opponent style of play and movements that can give you certain important clues that the shuttle will be delivered to your backhand side then it is more easy for you to prepare for an ATH then.

    Having said this, the importance of having a good footwork preparation and movements to execute an ATH shot does just not end once an ATH has been executed and since an ATH shot is an off balance shot, the importance for executing a correct and fluent footwork movements also will provide better legs and body balance while performing an ATH and importantly your recovery movement after an ATH has been executed can still will allow you to move quickly for the next shot.

    2. Having the correct weight balance distribution while swinging to execute an ATH shot is very important. Since during your action you will need to shift your upper body weight to your non racket leg side, your lower body part will act as a counter balance where your legs needs to be separated while your non racket legs act as an anchor. At the moment of contact, there should be no weight distributed to your racket leg and it should be lifted above ground as well.

    3. I said that after you perform an ATH shot, it will give you a highly possible disadvantage of positioning your stance in a poor position once you've landed since your body positioning and swinging action will carry you away from your optimal base position. Therefore, for reducing the risk of creating further threat for the next follow up shot from your opponent, possibly apply your ATH shot for an offensive one even though it can be use to all variety of shot. If it is a winning shot by itself or will open a window of opportunity for a winning shot in your next move are both better. Train yourself to apply your ATH shot to rather for an offensive option more then a defensive one unless when it is necessary. It is also important for you to aware that your non racket leg should strongly act as an anchor once landed so that your racket leg can push you for your next recovery movement.

    An ATH shot is a more less favorable type of shot especially for the beginners and recreational type of players. They tend to do a backhand more as this type of shot is more comfortable to perform even though the outcome of an ATH if far better if executed well. It is not that a backhand is less important but if you can execute an ATH shot convincingly often when there are opportunity, you will indeed further narrow the window of opportunity to your opponent shot selection as you are covering your backhand side very well.

    As like any other shot in badminton, you need to practically train regularly to do an ATH shot so that you can soon naturally recognize what are the correct preparation and technique in order to convincingly execute one.

    SS
     
  13. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Well said. There's too much showmanship in that video, and while it might be obvious to us, most players are not going to have the coaching eye to see it. :(

    As for the technique -- I think switching to panhandle is a desperate last resort here, and definitely not something I'd recommend players practise as a "main" technique.

    Sometimes a slight grip adjustment in this direction may be necessary, when under pressure. But it still looks nothing like Lee's demonstration. Lee is actually waiting in order to play a "panhandle ninja" shot.

    If a player constantly practises these pandhandle shots, it will undermine their basic overhead hitting action. In most cases, it's exactly the worst thing they could be practising. :rolleyes:
     
    #13 Gollum, Feb 12, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
  14. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I just watched the video again and made myself even angrier than the first time I saw it. Furthermore, when you REALLY don't have time, the shuttle very quickly travels flat and gets behind you - in such a situation, hitting with the panhandle grip is impossible without some phenomenal contortionist wrist movement - when the shuttle has passed behind you, in order to effectively hit an around the head shot, you will need a grip that is closer to a thumb grip (similar to a late forehand in the forehand corner).

    Yes, I do not like this video. Unacceptably wrong in my opinion.
     
  15. BernieR

    BernieR Regular Member

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    Ok Seeley and others, negative criticism is always useful and it helps to let off steam, but I have learned recently from training my dog that it is best to tell the trainee what he should be doing as well as what he shouldn't. So is there any advice about (or examples of) what exactly one should be doing?

    Vague generalisations like "you have to get the footwork right" are also not much use.
     
  16. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    Never seen Matt so angry :eek:
     
  17. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    here is footwork that you can use for some RTH shots. Bear in mind there is a difference between RTH and just a forehand shot in the backhand corner.
    [video=youtube;i_18kNDGMY8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_18kNDGMY8&index=12&list=PL2078E0C68066EA67[/video]
     
  18. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    You are of course correct - negativity is not necessary.

    However, I have already written a description of the correct technique in order to help you in post #5. You will notice at the time I asked you describe your footwork so I could help you better - and you never responded.

    More than happy to give further advice if you describe your footwork so I can match it to the hitting action you should be doing. The video amleto showed is a good one for general footwork towards the backhand, but is not appropriate for faster shots that need to be taken around the head.

    In such situations, a scissor kick is not possible. I have described the exact movements and footwork necessary in another thread recently - prizes for anyone who can remember where! I can't!
     
  19. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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  20. BernieR

    BernieR Regular Member

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    Apologies MSeeley, I see now there are several helpful responses in this thread which I have somehow missed, including yours.

    I think I am doing something like the footwork Jimmy Lin suggests, but with rather less elegance and grace! But I haven't thought consciously about it. I will video myself and have a look. That will probably be a shock.

    I'm also planning to look at all of Jimmy Lin's footwork videos, because I like his style and his instructions are clear and comprehensible.
     

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