Help me analyze this video

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by SSSSNT, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Lately I've been interested in analyzing matches and why top players do what they do.

    [video=youtube_share;SoM-JRWsTbA]http://youtu.be/SoM-JRWsTbA?t=9m54s[/video]

    Help me analyze one sequence: From 9:54 to 10:00. Just six seconds. Slowing the video down might help.


    1. After the serve, why did he return it that way? Not very threatening. Why not a net flick to the far left as many amateurs would do? Certainly he didn't lack the skill to do that. So why do a 'weak' return?

    2. on 9:57, the whole right side of the opponent was open. Yet he didn't put the shuttle there. What gives? Do you think it's simply a mistake of not recognizing in the heat of the game or was it the right decision?
     
  2. T.O.P

    T.O.P Regular Member

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    Shuttlecock speed is fast drive. and i don't think they able to swift their position yet it's a fast drive. Sometimes watch and figure out their mistake it's easier than actual game. Don't think they able to spread with this kind of speed drive, shuttle might shot centre on between of them. Another free point on between them. :)
     
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    1. imo, it was a good serve, so setiawan tried to brush it over but ended up unsuccesful

    2. that wasn`t a drive to him, so setiawan could`ve changed the direction of the shot to the relatively empty backhand side of the court... shows you that even pros are not infallible...
     
  4. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Just a quick response:

    For 1, I thought it was a reasonable return of serve - there was nothing "weak" about it because he did not lose the attack (his opponent couldn't do anything with it), and he forced his opponent to get into a fast/flat rally - which the indonesians like. Amateur players who are unskilled at the net would not benefit from such rallies, hence naively choose the "gaps" on court.

    For 2, you need to consider what he was trying to do. If he plays it to the right, one of the following may happen:
    He may hit a clean winner in the open court
    His opponent may get the shuttle
    He may hit the shuttle out

    If his opponent gets the shuttle - what happens then? Both he AND his partner are on the left but the shuttle is on the right - his opponent can just play a straight drive to win the rally. This is a common mistake made at club level - hitting cross court into the open spaces - this can result in a winner but more often than not means you expose your own teams positions!

    So - if he hits to the "open" court, there are some risks. So instead, he plays the shot he chose to play onto the left. What this does is creates PRESSURE (by attacking the same side the whole time, you build pressure on your opponents defences, without creating gaps in your own position). It also creates additional pressure because if the shuttle is returned, it will come back to him OR his partner (his partner and him are both stood towards the left of the court) - so it makes it difficult for the opponent to get it AWAY from him - so they are likely to win the point.

    So you see, hitting cross court into the open gap will expose his own side to a counter attacking straight shot, but hitting straight (towards his opponent), creates pressure on the opponent who has to try to hit a good shot to get out of trouble. One shot has risks and rewards, whilst the shot he chose had very few risks - at a top level, you should expect your opponent to get the shot, no matter where you put it! So, if they will definitely get it, where is the best place to put it to produce a weak response or create pressure? That was the shot he chose.

    I hope thats clear.
    Good luck!
     
  5. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Umm, I wonder if you've watched the sequence mentioned.

    Setiawan's not going to hit it cross court at all if he hit it to the open gap. The opponent was the one hiting it cross court, and then Setiawan hit it back cross court instead of to the open gap.
     
  6. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    In my opinion, with Setiawan being positioned in the middle of the court, his shot counts in my head as straight because thats the side they were focussing on. I do take your point though - when a shot is taken by setiawan from the middle of the court, and he has the choice of playing to the left or to the right, neither one is really straight, or indeed really cross court - but then again shots from the middle can't exactly be classified as cross court if they can be played to either side.

    Regardless of this, pay attention to the rest of what I said - the opponent tries to cross it, and Setiawan does not allow it - he keeps the pressure focused on that side of the court, where he AND HIS PARTNER are both well positioned to cover. Hitting to the other side would expose their right hand tramline. Pause the video at 9:57 just before Setiawan plays his shot - yes there is a gap on the opponents right side, but there is a HUGE gap on Setiawans right side of the court, his partner is perfectly placed on the left for him and Setiawan to keep attacking the left side of the court. So why bother hitting to the other side?

    There are many other things to consider - if the japanese player is trying to play a shot cross court, wouldn't he then expect a "straight" shot from Setiawan into the "open" gap, where he and his partner are probably going to move following their own cross court shot etc (knowing that, by playing this shot, Setiawan would be putting Ashan in danger by exposing the right side of the court to a straight counter attack).

    Regardless of whether you believe my classification of straight versus cross court is accurate (difficult to determine when a shot is played from the centre line), the rest of my post regarding advantages, disadvantages, creating pressure and tactics remains unchanged.

    Hope that makes sense.
     
  7. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Well you did say "hitting cross court into the open gap". That's definitely wrong.

    I do see what you are saying though. It's just hard to agree because I think in that situation if Setiawan hit it to the open gap, even if the opponent manage to get it, they're not gonna get it cleanly. Reason being they're positioned badly and it's their backhand side. There's plenty of time for Setiawan to move to the right for the finishing blow. Watching the video, it seemed like an obvious decision.

    Do anyone else see have a different perspective on this situation?
     
  8. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    I think the solution is pretty easy:

    1. The return of serve is just the best shot he can take. Flicking to the backhand is a really bad idea! Why? These guys are so fast, that the backcourt player will smash the flick. If you play it to flat, the frontcourt player intercepts it.

    By doing what he did, the Indonesian
    a) didn't lift (remember: in men's doubles, you don't wanna lift! that's true if you play on a regional level upwards. almost no exceptions...)

    b) played a relatively save shot (no risk in making a mistake)
    c) narrowed the opponent's choices (what can he do with this shot?).
    This kind of return is state of the art, nothing special. def 100 times better than a lift/flick.

    2. That one's a bit harder. I think the shuttle was already to low to kill it/play it with enough spedd DOWNWARDS to the backhand. Remember: we want to play the shuttle downwards. Always! Never lift! So a fast kill to the backhand was out of reach. What options remain:
    a) play a risky kind of net tumble to the opponent's backhand. that's a risky shot!
    b) just tap it back, like he did. I think it doesn't really matter if he plays it cross or straight to the opponent (longline is harder and risky!).
    the thing is simply: "I tap it back (not upwards!!!), we stay in our prefered position. There's nothing the opponent can do, we're better at flat exchanges!

    The Indonesians are very keen on staying in this flat game. That's what they're good at! It's there biggest concern to keep that thing flat.
    Perfectly imposing their tactics on the opponent in this case!
     
  9. mater

    mater Regular Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with the return in #1. With #2, I think it is the heat of the moment reaction. 20/20 hindsight, I think Setiawan would and should have hit it in the open gap in the right side. Ahsan is incredibly quick on his feet and he would have been in position without a doubt. If you watch the video where Setiawan hit it back to the left, Ahsan already leaped to the right position to take that shot had Setiawan missed or it went over Setiawan.
     

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