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Badminton Central Discussion Forums - General Forum http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/ Discussion on general badminton topics that are not covered in other forums en Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:43:05 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/misc/rss.png Badminton Central Discussion Forums - General Forum http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/ Over the hill at 50 ? http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?89076-Over-the-hill-at-50&goto=newpost Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:26:04 GMT I still very much enjoy playing competitively but when you're past 50,
it's pretty much a downward direction that i'm heading. It's very frustrating
at times when your body can't keep up with your mind.

Is there any way i can do to play like i was 25 again? :D
I have been doing training and all that but somehow i can't improve my reaction
to smashes.

Any input?

James
p/s i'm bored so i thought i'll post something :p ]]> General Forum 1984AllENGLAND http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?89076-Over-the-hill-at-50 How do I stand out to my coach? http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?89019-How-do-I-stand-out-to-my-coach&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:20:38 GMT Tryouts are soon, and there are always a ton of people that try out for Badminton. Most of them... Tryouts are soon, and there are always a ton of people that try out for Badminton.
Most of them aren't very good, but there are just so many people, I don't know how I can get my coach to see that I have the skills to be on the team.

What would be the best way to show off my talents? Like, footwork, tough shots, etc...? ]]> General Forum KYW917 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?89019-How-do-I-stand-out-to-my-coach Badminton body could move here (Singapore) http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88978-Badminton-body-could-move-here-(Singapore)&goto=newpost Tue, 07 Sep 2010 01:12:10 GMT Currently based in KL, BWF mulling a new home base and Switzerland, England and Singapore are... Currently based in KL, BWF mulling a new home base and Switzerland, England and Singapore are possibilities

by Low Lin Fhoong, TODAY online
05:55 AM Sep 07, 2010

SINGAPORE - The Republic is currently basking in the afterglow of hosting the first Youth Olympic Games successfully.

In a little over two weeks, Formula 1's first night race will return to Marina Bay.

Preliminary work on the Sports Hub has already started and the clock is ticking down to the completion of the huge project, set for April 2014.

By then, Singapore could also be home to the Badminton World Federation (BWF).

Currently located in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, the world governing body of badminton is considering relocating its headquarters and the likes of Switzerland (Lausanne), England and Singapore are possible destinations.

In an interview with MediaCorp last month, BWF deputy president Paisan Rangsikitpho said: "It's possible (to bring the headquarters to Singapore). We want to go wherever people want us and whether it's the best for badminton and our office.

"Europe wants us, and many other countries are interested to host us and there's also the consideration to stay in Malaysia ... we have to see what's best for the BWF."

While the BWF have not outlined any fixed criteria for interested candidates, the current arrangement with Malaysia includes tax exemption, free office space and grants.

According to Malaysian newspaper The Star, Malaysia also pays RM500,000 ($216,300) annually to the BWF.

The Singapore Badminton Association (SBA) are ready to welcome the world body here.

"SBA welcomes BWF's consideration of doing more out of Singapore," said president Lee Yi Shyan.

"Singapore, as home to 7,000 multinationals, is already a favourite headquarters location with strong connectivity to the region and beyond. We believe the same advantages would benefit BWF if they were based in Singapore."

The BWF plan to introduce the new Premier Super Series next year.

The series will offer more prize money and ranking points.

The inaugural series will see five tournaments from the current 12 in the super series calendar elevated to Premier status, with increased prize money for the next three years - the US$1.2 million ($1.6 million) Korea Open, Indonesia Open (US$600,000), All England (US$350,000), China Open (US$350,000) and Denmark Open (US$350,000).

The BWF are in the midst of finalising a title sponsorship deal for the new series and Rangsikitpho said: "We wanted to take the super series one level up and push the prize money higher. We're halfway now to the ATP (Association of Tennis Professionals) of maybe about US$2 to US$3 million prize money but we don't have grand slam stature yet. We're making some inroads here and hopefully attracting more players to play."

Employing a 32-player format, the Premier series will require compulsory participation from the world's top 10 men's and women's shuttlers, with a fine imposed on players who skip the tournaments.

Rangsikitpho was in town for the Youth Olympic Games and watched the badminton competition, which was held at the Singapore Indoor Stadium from Aug 15 to 19.

Changes are in store for the next edition in Nanjing, 2014.

With the Youth Olympic competition only allowing shuttlers aged 17 and 18 to compete, fans were unable to catch rising stars Viktor Axelsen, 16, of Denmark and Thailand's Ratchanok Inthanon, 15, in action in the boys' and girls' singles, respectively. Both world junior champions were unable to compete as they were underage.

"They were not old enough because of IOC regulations but we're looking to change that ... it should be under-18. We want the best to come ... if they are the best of the world's juniors, they should be here," explained Rangsikitpho. ]]> General Forum aramistuscany http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88978-Badminton-body-could-move-here-(Singapore) High Performance Director in Badminton ??? http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88959-High-Performance-Director-in-Badminton&goto=newpost Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:12:01 GMT What do you guys think about the post of the High Performance Director apointed by the Malaysian... What do you guys think about the post of the High Performance Director apointed by the Malaysian Badminton Association recently ? Can it makes any difference to the existing world class team ? ]]> General Forum CHC7576 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88959-High-Performance-Director-in-Badminton Tickets for World Championship 2011, Wembley http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88877-Tickets-for-World-Championship-2011-Wembley&goto=newpost Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:28:53 GMT I am going to the watch World Championship 2011 at Wembley. Trying to get tickets from... I am going to the watch World Championship 2011 at Wembley.
Trying to get tickets from www.ticketmaster.co.uk/

Never purchase tickets from www.ticketmaster.co.uk/ and find the navigation confusing. Hope someone here can enlighten me.

1. I would assume the lower tier, N8 and S8 block, being closest to the only playing court would have the best view. Am I correct?

2. Why can't I get lower tier tickets for Saturday and Sunday? Being sold out?

cheers

Mcd ]]> General Forum mcdogoo http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88877-Tickets-for-World-Championship-2011-Wembley be a good badminton player http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88823-be-a-good-badminton-player&goto=newpost Wed, 01 Sep 2010 04:06:21 GMT i hope someone will help me to become a good player in badminton.... is anyone can be my sponsor??... i hope someone will help me to become a good player in badminton.... is anyone can be my sponsor?? plssss..yonex,li-ning,victor,sotx or any person would help me... ]]> General Forum jhong88 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88823-be-a-good-badminton-player Philosophies of Double Plays http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88709-Philosophies-of-Double-Plays&goto=newpost Sun, 29 Aug 2010 08:28:35 GMT What do you believe double plays is all about? Start a list and add to the list: I ll start: ... What do you believe double plays is all about? Start a list and add to the list:

I ll start:

1. Plan with your partner before each serve.

Go. ]]> General Forum Birdy http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88709-Philosophies-of-Double-Plays Badminton Scoreboard (freeware) http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88689-Badminton-Scoreboard-(freeware)&goto=newpost Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:07:06 GMT _*Badminton Scoreboard (freeware):*_ Image:... Badminton Scoreboard (freeware):

I made it in visual basic...
Free download! ------> http://goranbadminton.blogspot.com/p/software.html ]]> General Forum solar http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88689-Badminton-Scoreboard-(freeware) <![CDATA[Jake downey's books in India]]> http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88658-Jake-downey-s-books-in-India&goto=newpost Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:33:25 GMT Hi everyone, for heavens sake, does anyone know any place in India where we get Jake Downey's Excelling at Badminton? I have been trying for a while to get it...DOes not matter which ever city it is. Please tell me. I need to know it fast.

Thank you ]]> General Forum b2harath2 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88658-Jake-downey-s-books-in-India What do you guys drink while playing? http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88543-What-do-you-guys-drink-while-playing&goto=newpost Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:10:30 GMT Hey What do YOU guys drink while training Me Mostly water (sometimes flavoured), rarely... Hey

What do YOU guys drink while training

Me

Mostly water (sometimes flavoured), rarely Gatorade, Occasionally Pocari Sweat ]]> General Forum ilostmybrain http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88543-What-do-you-guys-drink-while-playing New BadmintonCentral.com Facebook page.. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88408-New-BadmintonCentral.com-Facebook-page..&goto=newpost Sat, 21 Aug 2010 06:58:42 GMT Hi y'all,
for those who have a facebook account, there's a new BadmintonCentral page. This is different than the previous BadmintonCentral Group page (we might combine or link the two together)..
The creator is still working to put the page together, but it will be up pretty soon..
Anyone who is willing to help maintain the page, please contact kwun for further infos..
So, do check it out & populate it..:cool::
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Badmin...43391389026582 ]]> General Forum ctjcad http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88408-New-BadmintonCentral.com-Facebook-page.. Surrey County Team http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88328-Surrey-County-Team&goto=newpost Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:02:23 GMT Do any of you BC members play for Surrey, England or know people who do? Thanks Do any of you BC members play for Surrey, England or know people who do?

Thanks ]]> General Forum david14700 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88328-Surrey-County-Team Badminton Tattoo http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88286-Badminton-Tattoo&goto=newpost Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:27:52 GMT shuttlecock tattoo Attachment 77897... shuttlecock tattoo

Attachment 77897

Attached Images

]]> General Forum lizag http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88286-Badminton-Tattoo Badminton Win Probability - From Points to Games http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88211-Badminton-Win-Probability-From-Points-to-Games&goto=newpost Sat, 14 Aug 2010 00:06:06 GMT Badminton Win Probability - From Points to Games This is a statistical analysis of how the... Badminton Win Probability - From Points to Games

This is a statistical analysis of how the probability of winning a single point can be used to calculate the probability of winning a game. For this analysis, I assume that each point/game is independent of any other. This means that no psychological effects are considered (chance to win a point with a 10 point lead is the same as with a 10 point deficit).

If we take the probability to win a single point as a measure of the skill difference between players. Then this analysis will show both the expected result of a match and the expected points breakdown in a game.

Badminton Scoring

The rally scoring system will be used. In which:
A point is scored on each serve.
A game is won by the first player to:

reach 21 points with at least a two point lead over the opponent
after 20:20, score a two point lead over the opponent
after 20:20, reach 30 points

A match is won by the first player to win two games.

Introduction

Consider a match between players A and B. Let:
p_point = probability of player A winning any one point.
p_game = probability of player A winning any one game.
p_match = probability of player A winning the match.

Due to the simple combinatorics of winning two games out of three, It's trivial to see that:

Code:

p_match = p_game * p_game + 2 * p_game * p_game * (1 - p_game)

In words this means that there is just one way for A to win two games in a row (Win-Win-END), and two ways for A to win two games and lose one game (Win-Lose-Win-END, or Lose-Win-Win-END).

To introduce a bit more notation, p_match can be rewritten as:

Code:

p_match = (2,0) * p_game^2 + (2,1) * p_game^2 * (1 - p_game)

Where the caret, "^", signifies exponentiation (5^3 = 5*5*5 = "five to the power of 3").

While the notation of (n,k) signifies the binomial coefficient, the number of ways k items can be chosen from a set of n items. For (2,1) in the case, we are choosing where the one lost game can occur in the set of two games (first or second game). There is only one lost game to consider since we are calculating for when player A wins. Also, we only consider putting it in either the first or second game since A would not have a chance to lose the third game if he won both earlier games.

Analysis

With the introduction out of the way, the true objective is to calculate how p_point is related to p_game. This is done in essentially the same way as above, where p_match was calculated from p_game.

Up until 20:20, p_game is easy to think about. Player A can win anywhere from 21:0 to 21:19. This means that for each particular score, A scores 21 points and B scores i points, where i is between 0 and 19. Also, for A to win, A will always score the last point. So the combinatorics is to chose where 20 points can be placed in (20+i) places.

The formula in pseudo-code is:

Code:

p_game = 0

for i = 0:19

    p_game = p_game + (20+i, 20) * p_point^21 * (1 - p_point)^i

end

20:20 occurs when both A and B score 20 points each, this of course means that we are choosing 20 out of 40. The probability to reach 20:20 is:

Code:

(40, 20) * p_point^20 * (1 - p_point)^20

From here A needs a two point advantage in order to win the game (until 29:29). This means an extra factor of p_point^2. Also, going up the score charts, there needs to be a factor of 2 * p_point * (1 - p_point) every time deuce is reached. To explain in more detail, going from 20:20 to 21:21 requires one point for A and one point for B, and this can be done in two ways (A-B or B-A).

The formula for 22+ point victories are:

Code:

for i = 0:8

    p_game = p_game + (40, 20) * p_point^22 * (1 - p_point)^20 * (2 * p_point * (1 - p_point))^i

end

Reaching 29:29, A just needs one more point to win, the probability to win 30:29 is simply:

Code:

(40, 20) * p_point^21 * (1 - p_point)^20 * (2 * p_point * (1 - p_point))^9

Results

After putting everything together, lets plug in some numbers and get some results.

Code:

p_point       p_game        p_match

0.5000        0.5000        0.5000

0.5500        0.7458        0.8390

0.6000        0.9086        0.9765

0.7000        0.9970        1.0000

It's quite clear that even a small change in p_point leads to big changes in p_game. Winning 55% of rallies leads to winning 75% of games. Increasing that to 60% of rallies give 90% win probability for games.

The probability for how points breakdown for each game is plotted at the end of the post. The plots show results for the four p_points above for both A winning or B winning. The probability dip beyond 20 points is expected since that can only be achieved with a score of 20:20 at some point and can only be continued with deuces. The x-axis label kept getting cut off for some reason, but the last word is just "game".

In the next section, I will use the same method for tennis.

Tennis Win Probability - From Points to Games to Sets

I had worked out the above analysis for a while now, but had been too lazy to write it all up. GameGod's post, http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...read.php?88196, was what finally motivated me to do the analysis for tennis and post both results.

I will again be assuming a single probability for winning a point. This is much more questionable in tennis since the serve is such an advantage. Since this tennis analysis is just to answer GameGod's question, it should suffice. But if there is interest, I may redo the analysis to account for service advantage.

Tennis Scoring

There are more variations in tennis scoring than badminton. I will use the following:
A point is scored on each serve.
A game is won by the first player to:

reach 4 points with at least a two point lead over the opponent
after 3:3, score a two point lead over the opponent with no limit

A set is won by the first player to:

reach 6 games with at least a two game lead over the opponent
after 5:5, win two games in a row
after 6:6, win seven points with a two point lead over the opponent with no limit

A match is won by the first player to win two/three sets.

Analysis

I will not be posting the tennis analysis, this is a badminton forum after all. The basic idea is the same, but there are more tricky parts. If there is interest to see the full analysis, I will consider posting them.

Consider a match between players A and B. Let:
p_point = probability of player A winning any one point.
p_game = probability of player A winning any one game.
p_set = probability of player A winning any one set.
p_match = probability of player A winning the match.

The main differences from badminton is the addition of a "set", this really just adds another level of analysis and is not that much of a problem. The main variations in tennis rules is due to tie-breaking. There are major differences in this aspect even in major tournaments.

Tie-breaking to win a game follows the deuce/advantage system, in which a two point lead is needed and there is no limit. However, there is also "no-advantage" scoring, where a game is won by the first player to win four point, full stop.

Tie-breaking to win a set is usually done with "seven point tie-break", where after reaching 6:6, a final game is played to a seven points and at least a two point lead with no limit. However, some tournaments still play with "advantage set", where the set continues until a player has a two game lead with no limit. This was shown recently with the 2010 Wimbledon first-round match between John Isner and Nicolas Mahut.

To win a match, Men's usually play best of 5 sets, while Women's usually play best of 3 sets. For best of three sets, the method to get p_match from p_set is the same as that as in badminton (where p_game is used to get p_match). For best of five sets, that is left as an exercise to the reader.

Results

Code:

p_point       p_game        p_set

0.5000        0.5000        0.5000

0.5500        0.6231        0.8150

0.6000        0.7357        0.9634

0.7000        0.9008        0.9998

It's again clear that a small change in p_point leads to big changes in p_game and p_set. It's worth mentioning that for the same p_point, both badminton and this tennis scoring variant give very similar p_set. This will allow us to compare the point breakdown in a game of badminton and the game breakdown in a set of tennis to answer GameGod's question.

The probability for how games breakdown for each set is plotted at the end of the post. The plots show results for the four p_points above for both A winning or B winning. While the distribution moves left just as the badminton point breakdown distribution, the tennis distribution moves much faster. The x-axis label again keeps getting cut off for some reason, the last word is just "set".

GameGod's Question

GameGod's question from http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...read.php?88196 essentially asks how to compare scores between badminton and tennis.

My answer is to compare the point distributions from badminton to the game distributions from tennis. This is done by taking groups of points in badminton and summing their individual probabilities and matching the sum to the probability for each game in tennis.

This comparison needs to be done when the distributions are calculated from the same p_point. This is justified since the p_game from badminton match the p_set from tennis for the same p_point.

For p_point = 0.5

Code:

tennis       badminton

6 : 0        0-8

6 : 1        9-11

6 : 2        12-14

6 : 3        15-16

6 : 4        17-18

7 : 5        19

7 : 6        20-29

For p_point = 0.7

Code:

tennis       badminton

6 : 0        0-8

6 : 1        9-12

6 : 2        13-15

6 : 3        16-18

6 : 4        19-20

7 : 5        21-22

7 : 6        23-29

Due to the integer nature of points and games, the sums do not match up exactly. However, I think it is sufficient given the coarse nature of the tennis analysis. If a comparison between a match of badminton and a match of tennis was desired, it would probably require a tedious cross multiplication between the distributions before the summation comparison.

I hope this has been an interesting analysis for everyone to read. Thanks.

- hhwoot

Attached Images

]]> General Forum hhwoot http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88211-Badminton-Win-Probability-From-Points-to-Games Where are the good places to buy badminton rackets in SG? http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88148-Where-are-the-good-places-to-buy-badminton-rackets-in-SG&goto=newpost Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:25:46 GMT hi to all I am quite new to badminton and i m planning to get a racket at a budget of S$50 -... hi to all

I am quite new to badminton and i m planning to get a racket at a budget of S$50 - $100

any chances for me to get a good racket with that amount??

thx ]]> General Forum ErikaT http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?88148-Where-are-the-good-places-to-buy-badminton-rackets-in-SG