Where are the English?

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by scamp, Jan 23, 2024.

  1. CanucksFan

    CanucksFan Member

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    From what I can tell, it all just seems to be far too centralized. Everything is based around Milton Keynes - not only the National Badminton Centre, but more importantly, the Milton Keynes Badminton Academy. Pretty much all the younger players are coming through there (including the Van Leeuwens, which might lead you to have concerns about nepotism and favouritism, with their father being the head coach there, and also heavily involved in Badminton England).

    I have no doubt that there are plenty of other far more naturally gifted youngsters around the country, but they're at a massive disadvantage because they just won't get the coaching where they are, and perhaps more significantly, they won't know the right people. To do well out of the system, you need to be from the right area already, or have those ultra pushy (and financially well off) parents, who are willing to relocate or regularly drive long distances, just to give their child the best opportunity to excel in a sport.

    I also feel bad for Chloe Birch, who is probably still the best player in the country, but has noone close to her level to partner her - she won the nationals (yet again) as part of a scratch pairing with Jenny Mairs (who normally only plays mixed with her husband), but it seems like she has sacrificed her own ambitions to help nurture the next generation, mostly playing mixed with Ethan Van Leeuwen and womens with his sister, Estelle, and sadly I don't see much potential in either of them (certainly not Ethan, who has probably the worst attitude of any player I've seen, receiving warnings from umpires in virtually every match, for what can only be described as being a twat - stuff like hitting the shuttle into the crowd after losing a point).

    Ultimately though, England is simply not a nation of badminton players, and that's okay. I love badminton, but if other people want to play football, rugby, tennis or whatever else instead, I see absolutely no harm in that (I draw the line at cricket). As long as people are active and happy, it's all good. I don't really care if the England football team win the world cup, and I don't care if English players win badminton medals at the Olympics.
     
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  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I think she got dropped by Lauren in women’s doubles. Lauren was trying to play both mixed and women’s doubles at this late stage of her career. However, not sure if that was also a coaching decision to play two events and then move back to one. Some of these decisions are not solely done by players and physical trainer staff might also give some input.
     
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This happens in all sports and academics as well. Fact of life across many countries.
     
  4. CanucksFan

    CanucksFan Member

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    True, but if it were some other sport, like football (soccer) say, there would be plenty of opportunities wherever you are in the country - certainly in any of the major cities. There isn't just one city, which isn't even a particularly major population centre (about a quarter of the size of Birmingham), where you need to be in order to have any future.
    And from what I understand, there are plenty of countries where that happens with badminton too (Denmark being the obvious example that is usually given).

    I can only assume that funding in England is too dependent on the results of professional players, and Badminton England have made the purely business decision that they can get the best bang for their buck by focusing all of their investment in one small place, instead of spending a little bit here and there, which isn't enough to make a big difference anywhere.
    If we were only talking about university students and adults, I'd be totally fine with that - as you say, it's very common for people in many different careers to have to relocate for the best opportunities. But it's totally unacceptable to me when talking about children, who don't have that option.
     
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  5. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Looks like Lane and Vendy at number 20 in the world get the nod for team GB in the Olympics.
     
  6. charliebadders

    charliebadders Regular Member

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    To give my 2 cents.

    Probably key issues regarding national set up, but wider factors too.

    - cost vs space. Indoor courts are prime locations and you're competing against lots of other sports and activities. (Netball, Basketball, Volleyball, indoor football, gymnastics, but equally children's birthday parties on weekends). The cost of booking courts is not cheap, and with the price of feathers has also increased. Peak prices after 6pm. Badminton englands proposal was to have a more smaller scale courts, using town halls and mosques to provide more available court space.

    The link with developing children, and young adults with adult club scene. For example, for many football clubs you will have u6's all the way to adults for nearly every village/town, with multiple clubs. They share knowledge, resources and community. For adult badminton clubs, it can be a lot of admin for the adults alone with the bookings, shuttles and fixtures, so there is a gap between under 16 badminton and adults. Adults usually play strictly only matches on club night and match days, so there is limited training knowledge being passed on. For example, the average recreational player probably wouldn't know any drills to practice other than isolation shots and drives. This links to the above about cost of courts.

    County badminton - I'm sure some counties are great, but I do find there is a massive Gulf between county and league. County players are these elusive figures that were typically brilliant junior players, but don't play in the leagues other than a select fews, and usually train amongst themselves. Most counties also wouldn't have their own club house, and will be paying for use of the building like every other club.

    Personally I feel this creates the removal of the pursuit of excellence. I.e. I want to play in the top division for badminton. Gets to division 1 of the local league. Ok where next? I think counties are quite strapped for funding, but you really need people to go the extra mile to build that constant feeling of growth. Imo badminton can be played to a high level into your 40s for doubles, so I feel there shouldn't be this obstacle for development at a later stage.

    If you compare Danish badminton clubs with UK clubs/counties, you'll see a significant difference. There are very few badminton only centres in the whole country.

    UK funding - funding is usually provided through two means - lottery/government and sponsorship. Badminton England has very little of both.

    This means talent is usually compact, with only a select few individuals receiving extensive training. Also, it means external factors like injury has a massive impact of the future talent. If you think that Torjussen has just quit the national set up due to injury, and happened to numerous players. Probably bringing it back to the previous point, for players that don't make it, where do they go? You need these internal competitions to keep quality high, and not lose great talent from the sport. Happens so often.

    I had a friend at university I met outside of badminton, mentioned I played for the university etc. he said he used to play badminton, and trained 5 days a week. Got more into the conversation, and he said "do you know how Viktor Axelsen is doing?", I said he's doing good, got bronze in the European championships just gone (this was over 10 years ago). He was like, yeah thought he'd do well. I remember on the European junior circuit he was one of the best, would regularly meet him in the semis and finals, and be the only one to take him to three sets.

    Googled him and this guy won everything at English junior level, and just stopped playing at 18. There are probably many other cases similar.
     
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